I guess I am having a hard time grasping why on earth it takes so long for the so-called officials to count ballots. It also amazes me that generally it’s the Democrats that gain the votes and leap-frog ahead of the clear front runner. Makes one wonder. Just wondering...that’s all.

What’s more amazing is that Republicans keep ending up as President even when they get fewer votes than their opponents. That’s some advanced voodoo calculus. A Democrat winning an election in a majority Democrat district is just simple arithmetic.

Thank you Catherine Baker for all that you did for this District.

I wonder how many current UC students and their parents voted for Bauer-CON to "send a message." The electorate values identity, polarization and partisanship over reasonableness, moderation and compromise. Candidates who can't factually attack their opponent's record simply lie about it then get rewarded at the ballot box. That same thought process is how we ended up with President Trump.

Web Link

@Bay Area Native

My votes this year were intended to send a message. Seems that the message has been received loud and clear.

Doug,
Voting for someone based on party affiliation over the body of work the other (baker) has done is foolish. Youve compounded the problem youre trying to address.
Do you really think trump gives two thoughts to ca voting a Republican out and a Democrat in? Youve only punished the district. Instead of actionable results youve elected another mouthpiece that cant change who is president.

@Pleasanton Parent

Yes, Trump does care and so do those who support him who had the mistaken impression that America is behind Trump.

The only thing that would have saved Baker was if she had publicly come out and denounced Trump.

If Trump didn't care he wouldn't keep commenting on wins and losses. After the midterms Trump said that Mia Love (R- Utah) lost because she didn't support him. Now she is ahead as votes are still being counted.

Trump sees everything as a referendum on him. It's either you are "loyal" and with him 100 percent or you are not. If Catherine Baker were smart she would have outright denounced Trump and maybe had a chance at winning. Even better, just become a Democrat and stop playing these silly games pretending that the GOP has any morals or bravery to actually stand up to Trump.

Trump probably got Bauer-Kahan elected.

Got news for all of you. No one outside of California cares about California. We are a national joke.

@California

No one outside California cares about a state which has the 5th largest economy in the world?

I am very disappointed and sadden at losing Catherine Baker. I agree with Bay Area Native in thanking her for all her hard work, her competence, and her bipartisan efforts. I think she lost because so many people in this area dislike Trump. And by extension, blame her because she has an "R" after her name. Do they realize that there are three major parties in the USA right now? The Democratic party, the Republican party and the Trump party. Few people would describe President Trump as a true Republican. And Catharine Baker was definitely NOT a member of the Trump party. I encourage everyone to have a look at her website, her achievements during the last 4 years, her endorsements, her positions: Web Link
Then have a look at our new representative and compare her to Ms. Baker: Web Link
I am hoping Catharine Baker will run again when the "D" or "R" labels will mean less than a candidates positions, experience, achievements, and we will have her back.

@Nicki, the moderate Republican Party as you claim it no longer exists. The federal senate is full of so-called moderates (including but not limited to Mitch McConnell and now Mitt Romney) who claimed that they would fight Trump to the end, but now meekly vote in favor of whatever Trump places in front of them. In the Republican Party, 'moderate' is a synonym for 'weak'. I for one am not prepared to vote for anyone who is not ashamed to be a member of the Republican Party as it is today.

We already have a centrist party. It's called the Democratic party. Right wing has been moving the goal posts further and further to the right and asking for compromise for 35 years. Watch uncle Reagan's speeches and you will see he is to the left of today's Democratic party on most issues.

Nicki,
I agree with you regarding baker. She was great.

Robert
Both parties have given rise to the other's extremists. And as a result were losing good representation because theyre being associated with a person over their own beliefs/actions. We will be the ultimate victims of this

"We already have a centrist party. It's called the Democratic party."

This is called blindness. There is nothing "centrist" about Bauer-Kahan's positions or the tax/regulatory/spending/social policies being promoted by Democrats in California. Ignore the Constitution, take more of the taxpayers money, and empower the scope/size of government - to create a utopian welfare state where everything is "fair".

MichaelB,

You failed to include the word "tyranny" in your silly little speech. Your superiors will not be pleased with you.

RA I don't believe "tyranny" belongs in the post you referred. It appears your handlers will be displeased with you.

Your belief system is flawed.

Says you! Look in a mirror. Bye!

I’m with PP’s response to Robert. As long as both parties are riding tilt a whirls that shove them to the extremes, the rest of us have few good choices with those we elect. Baker was one of the few good choices.

@Doug:
Voters in CA's 50th congressional district used your same thought process to re-elect someone under indictment. Voting for parties over candidates results in extremists from both parties getting elected. Not an issue for those exploiting the divide to "win" at all costs but it sucks for moderates who no longer seem to have a voice.

In response to Robert Adams: "We already have a centrist party. It's called the Democratic party."
HARDLY!
The current Democratic party is composed of at least 6 fractions, which caucus separately!!!! They are (alphabetically): Centrist wing, Conservative wing, Liberal wing, Libertarian wing, Progressive wing, Social democratic and democratic socialist wing. Surprisingly, at least maybe for Robert Adams, the LARGEST wing at present, is the PROGRESSIVE wing
To say the Democratic party is CENTRIST, with members like Ayanna Pressley in Massachusetts and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in NY, increasingly being elected to the Democratic party, is not paying attention to the trends within the party. To see to which wing you belong, Robert Adams, and others, you might want to check this out: Web Link

@Bay Area Native :"Voters in CA's 50th congressional district used your same thought process to re-elect someone under indictment."

You're telling me that Republican voters are idiots because they re-elected indicted Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter for using campaign funds for personal bills including luxury vacations? Thanks, but I had already gathered the fact that a lot of Republican voters are idiots because of their voting for Donald Trump.

If Baker wanted my vote and the votes of many other independents, all she had to do was publicly denounce Donald Trump - or do you think that that would have been too "extreme"?

Nicki,

Thank you for your response. Have you completed the homework assignment I gave you and watched uncle Ronnie's speeches? Errrr, I didn't think so. My statement is absolutely true even if you refuse to admit it.

Kathleen,

Ok, so you liked Baker. Why do you assume our new representative will not be better? You argued (in a different article) that people shouldn't assume Julie Testa is against Costco (I'm pretty sure she is).

Robert, Pretty sure Testa isn’t against Costco, and I’m guessing I’m closer to that answer than you. If you have a good representative, you don’t give her the boot for an inexperienced, we don’t know what she’ll do, person. My opinion.

Robert Adam, interesting you should mention "Uncle Ronnie", since the centrist wing of the Democratic party came into full force in 1984-1985 after his election. However, Robert Adams, that was a few generations ago and the Democratic party has changed a lot since then, including membership in the centrist wing. Can you name me few Democratic centrists today?
Ok, Joe Biden, but he will be pushing 80 in 2020.
How about Jim Hines, but who ever heard of him.
OK, maybe Chris Coons, but not really a rising star.
So, what is the Democratic party today and where is it going? Better think about the millennials (presently 22-36-year-olds). They currently make up 25% of the US population and in the main, their views are NOT centrist. No, the Democratic party is not now, and hasn't been for a long time, centrist.

Kathleen,

People believe J Testa is against Costco because her most vocal and outspoken supporter was Matt Sullivan who is the biggest opponent of the Costco project.

Nicki,

Bernie Sanders has had the same views on issues for 40 years. Plenty of youtube proof if you care to spend the time. He was a centrist independent for most of that time. He is now considered LEFT of the Democratic party even thou his views have not changed at all! GOP and their right wing propaganda machine has done a great job of moving the goal posts and dragging the Democratic party to the right.

Robert, are all your family members and friends in lock step with every one of your views? It’s certainly not my experience. Julie is now your elected council member. You can reach her directly instead of deciding what she thinks based on what someone else does.

Agreed Kathleen. You can apply the same good advice regarding Bauer-Kahan.

Robert Adam: "dragging the Democratic party to the right"?
The election of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ayanna Pressley represents a movement of the Democratic party to the left, not the right.
The proposed abolishment of ICE by some Democrats represents a movement of the Democratic party to the left, not the right.
The establishment of sanctuary cities (and states) represents a movement of the Democratic party to the left, not the right.
The passage of prop 47, here in CA, Changing felonies to misdemeanors and
allowing repeat offenders to continue breaking the law with little consequence, represents a movement of the Democratic party to the left, not the right.
Would you show me ONE, ONE, ONE instance of the Democratic party moving to the RIGHT?

The only difference between the two candidates is hair color.

Nicki,

The issues you mentioned are very recent. I am looking at 40 years. I'm glad to see they're trying to grow a spine to stand up to the right wing. We used to have an assault weapons ban in this country. Now, nothing, not even a whisper of it. ObamaCare was a Heritage Foundation (right wing think tank) idea implemented by Mitt Romney in Massachusetts. But when the Democrats proposed it it became Communism, get your pitch forks! Education policy, civil liberties and crime are three areas where Democrats have moved way right of their positions in the 80s. Don't worry about ICE, it isn't going anywhere.
Republicans have elected three criminally indicted candidates and a dead pimp in Nevada this past election. Democrats have taken the gays under their umbrella, Republicans took the Nazis, the Klan, and child molesters. And you wonder why people run away from anyone with an R after their name??

Robert,
Thats right, antifa is a Republican organization

What does Antifa mean? Do you have any clue at all??

I remember Mary Hayashi, Leland Yee locally, and a couple of other democrats in southern California, all of whom are convicted criminals.

Robert,
Yes I do. But apparantly you dont look beyond an organizations name to determine their social benefit - any means possible justify the end for you huh?
Makes sense as you voted out a great district rep for an unknown that just wants to scream at trump.

Maybe you don't know what Antifa means because Fox doesn't ever explain it. Antifa is short for Anti-fascist. Now.....I come from a long line of anti-fascists. Both of my grandfathers were anti-fascists in the 1940s. In fact one of them was killed by fascists in March 1945. What you are really saying when you oppose antifa is that you ARE a fascist!

The only reason antifa became an organization is because of the rise of fascism in this country. It's easy to make antifa go away.....just get rid of fascists. Simple. No fascists, no antifa. I'm not waiting until you put Mexicans in ovens, ok?

Mailing bombs, shooting up synagogues, oh yeah, antifa is doing all those things

Glad to know you support terrorist organizations Robert.

Maybe swalwell will let you turn the second key when he launches the nukes at Americans

You love everything about America except the Americans

Keep writing Robert, you and those like you will help shift the voting majority back to the center.

Why don't you move to the Idaho Fourth Reich already since you're so unhappy here?

California is BLUE! Get over it or get out!

...keep going. Keep spouting "if you dont agree with me youre a nazi" rhetoric.
You are the person you are set to remove from office - you have a different philosophical stance, but the same attitude, the same ego, the same fear mongering name calling tactics.
How does it feel to realize you are the thing youre raging against? Think you may be projecting your own unhappiness on me.
Im good, got a great family, friends, career, and life. I don't have time to hate.

I have all those things too and I consider it my civic duty to fight fascism, which you have already accepted.

“You can apply the same good advice regarding Bauer-Kahan.” No. You were judging Julie based on Matt. I did not make a decision about Bauer-Kahan based on some affiliation with another person.

Yes, weve established you are the same arrogant rhetoric spewing "im right youre wrong" personality you are set to remove from office by any means possible. Including social domestic terrorism.

Wait....so you mail the bombs and shoot up the synagogue and somehow I am the bad guy??? Mental gymnastics at its finest!

Kathleen,

You are already judging Bauer-Kahan because of the D after her name. You are saying she can't possibly be better than Baker. What if she is? What if it turns out she votes the way you would want her to? Are you willing to bet me a dollar on the Testa-Costco issue?

The gop make their own problems. This is collateral damage from their national platform of racism and greed. Soulless. The party's dying hail mary,exploiting unfounded fear. That game only works for so long. Good riddance.

Robert,
Ill take that bet - baker hasnt refered to ice as isis. Kahn did that before even being elected

Baker is the only R I voted for this time around—foolish to make an assumption like yours. I don’t think Bauer-Kahan will vote my preferences. I’ll take the bet, but that means you have to talk to Julie. We didn’t vote about whether the tenant should be Costco you know. I didn’t like the money we front in this deal, but I don’t care who goes there and surely something will.

Kathleen,

You have yourself a deal. I will email JT and forward you her reply. Also, I did not assume anything about you. From the comments you have posted on this website over the past couple of years I think you are a thoughtful, fair minded traditional conservative (rare these days) and you have all my respect. I know we didn't vote on Costco specifically, that would not hold up in court. It was worded differently but everyone knows it was about Costco. The community overwhelmingly voted to allow that size business there so let's give the people what they want. Please don't assume too much about me either. I may surprise you with how conservative I am on several issues. Time to go to work now. Bye.

Let’s make things crystal clear here: The head of the Republican Party and current President, Donald Trump, is mentally ill. You can try to deflect that. You can try to counterattack that. You can try to ignore that. But the one thing that you can’t do is to deny that. Even now our mentally ill President is attacking the basic foundations of our democracy by his attacks on the free press by labeling anything and everything which he sees as a criticism of him as being “fake news”. Strongman dictators throughout the world love it and are taking notes from Trump. In recent weeks, Trump has publicly claimed - without evidence - that election recounts were being rigged against Republicans. He has attacked the integrity, character, and competence of former admiral William McRaven, a man who has dedicated his life in service to this country and who was the architect of the commando raid that killed Osama bin Laden. And in the past 24 hours, Trump has publicly attacked incoming House Democrat Adam B. Schiff in a tweet in which he referred to Schiff in a vulgar, juvenile twitter post as “little Adam Schitt” (!!?).

Do you all get the fact that this is not normal, adult behavior for anyone, much less the President of the United States? Do you realize the sad and simple fact that there are many Pleasanton elementary school students who are more mature than the current President of the United States? These are not normal times. This isn’t about Baker’s position on Costco. As far as my votes are concerned, this is now about any and all elected Republicans who don’t take a stand against a mentally ill demagogue who has taken over and redefined their Party and is undermining American democracy. Any elected Republican like Baker who doesn’t publicly stand against Trump stands with Trump and helps to support him, and that’s unacceptable in my book.

...but Swalwell can tweet about using nukes on Americans. Thats not mental illness if its for the cause right?

Doug, Trump is a worldwide embarrassment. It’s difficult to call him the leader of the free world given his policies. But it isn’t just him we should be worrying about—although that’s s full plate in itself. Watch John Oliver if you can (link below). He did a great segment on the state of the world, and you’ll know where he’s headed pretty quickly. Web Link

The first minute (of 18) is silliness about A Star is Born, but stick with it.

@PP,

Swalwell was using hyperbole, and makes a lot of sense on second amendment issues. He doesn't go far enough in my opinion. I would eliminate the amendment entirely.

Trump is an embarrassment.

@Pleasanton Parent :”...but Swalwell can tweet about using nukes on Americans. Thats not mental illness if its for the cause right?”

So that’s what you believe to be a fair and accurate summary of the twitter exchange between Swalwell and a pro-gun activist who suggested that gun owners might go to war against the United States, is it? Why do you even bother to distort the context and meaning of Swalwell’s statement when you know that I or anyone else can quickly google up the information in seconds? Do you enjoy destroying your own credibility?

He is just in your heads. Schiff and Stalwell are just guys, nothing more and nothing less. Neither will be anything more than they are now. Optics aside I like the following; North Korea, Iran, NATO members paying, closing down the border, high stock market, a funded and now motivated military, low unemployment for men, women, and all minorities. I don't care about how he appears to libs or to the rest of the world. I want a work horse and not a show horse. He is just a threat to the globalists and the establishment and thats fine by me.

@Pete : “Optics aside I like the following; North Korea, Iran, NATO members paying, closing down the border, high stock market, a funded and now motivated military, low unemployment for men, women, and all minorities.”

Well, let’s take some of your items:

‘North Korea’ : What do you think that Trump has accomplished with North Korea? Seriously. Have you even been reading the news?
“Why there has been no progress in nuclear talks with North Korea”, The Economist
“North Korea Says It Has Tested ‘Ultramodern Tactical Weapon’”, NYT
“North Korea Is Operating at Least 13 Secret Missile Sites, Satellite Images Show”, Time

‘High Stock Market’ : LOL! The S&P 500 is essentially flat year-to-date, and is about 8% down from its highs. Get a clue: Notice that Trump hasn’t been boasting about the stock market recently?

“low unemployment‘ : Take a look at the trend in the unemployment rate between Obama’s time in office and Trump’s in the graph at the following link. You see any difference in the unemployment rate trend between the two? Nope, me neither.
MSNBC : Web Link

BTW, why didn’t you mention Trump’s ‘accomplishment’ of increasing the national budget deficit by a whopping 17% in just one year?

Our state is virtually one party rule and we see how well that has worked out nationally. The R in this state have all but rolled over and died. The way there can be a balance is us independents can start making a bigger difference in elections. I hope the new rep isn’t a D party push over-time will tell 8 think the next BART strike will be an excellent test.

.....but hyperbole on Twitter is ok when its coming from a swalwell. When trump does it hes mentally ill?

You can still support a candidate and not agree with everything they say. Swalwell is wrong.

An elected official engaging in an elementary internet argument and even jesting at the idea of using nukes on his constituents is inappropriate. If that were an elementary student school would be closed, authorities would be at the house searching for any realization of the threat.

You cant condemn the behavior of one and applaud the same behaviors of anorher.

@Pleasanton Parent

Swalwell may or may not have been wrong in taking the bait by the gun enthusiast who suggested the idea of an American civil war over guns, but if you can't see the enormous difference between what Swalwell did and what Trump does, then in my view you're hopeless and there is no possibility of having a rational discussion with you.

The fact that ppl still dont understand the electoral college in this day and age.

"may or may not have" give me a break. You're no better than the Trump purists you want to attack. He was wrong - its ok for you to say he was wrong. It doesn't mean you support trump if you say Swalwell was wrong.

He was wrong, no question about it. If you can't accept that there is no possibility of having a rational discussion with you and more hopelessly, the thought of us getting back to a position of political neutrality is further off than I hoped.

Someone wrote:
" If Baker wanted my vote and the votes of many other independents, all she had to do was publicly denounce Donald Trump "

Ha ha! That's one of the dumbest things I've heard this week.

@Pleasanton Parent

You seem to have a very strong clear sense of right and wrong. OK, let’s see how you do with these simple questions, then:

Is Trump right or wrong when he reflexively declares news criticism of him as being “fake news”?
Was Trump right or wrong in throwing a vulgar, juvenile twitter post at Representive Adam Schiff and calling him “little Adam Schitt” ?
Was Trump right or wrong in attacking the integrity, character, and competence of former admiral William McRaven, the architect of the commando raid against bin Laden?

@Pleasanton Parent : “Ha ha! That's one of the dumbest things I've heard this week”

Given the fact that you voted for a guy for President who has been confirmed to speak at the vocabulary level of a 4th grader, why on earth would you think that I have a high regard for your opinions on matters of intelligence?

I would like to personally thank Representative Baker for her service. She has represented our district well and done more than I have seen many many others do. I am registered Democrat, but she is the only Republican I voted for. This is because I saw everything Representative Baker did, went to many of her activities and met her personally. She has to have been the most active Representative I have ever seen. The most bi-partisan Representative I have seen as well. I reached out to seek advice on a personal matter that could have legal ramifications and she had her team help me out without pause. Why? Because I was one of her constituents. And they were on top of it giving me advice when I thought I was alone in this matter. This was about women’s rights in the workplace.

Representative Baker has my respect and admiration for all she has done for our district and community and she will be missed by me. I only hope that our future Representive Bauer-Kahan is as involved with her district and community as Representative Baker was. She has tall boots to fill...

I also hope that this is not the last we have seen of Representative Baker. I believe she has yet to fulfill all her potential and that is good for all of us...

I told you. He is in your head 24/7. Just relax and enjoy the times and the success.

You know, a lot of people my age used to be interested in politics. But ever since 2016, it's because of conversations-- like the one right now between Pleasanton Parent and Doug--that make politics truly disgusting.

Do you guys truly have nothing better to do? It's sad to see that this is how some people spend their holidays...

I agree with student at av. Doug you need to improve your vocabulary before speaking ill of others. You and Trump have something in common. Very high unwarranted opinions of yourselves. Good day.

@Student & Agree

Absolutely no one is forcing you to go to a forum and read opinions that you don't agree with. If you don't care for the opinions that are expressed on a forum or don't care for the way that thoughts are expressed there, then do what I do: Ignore the forum and move on.

@PP,

Swalwell was using obvious hyperbole. From the context it was clear what he meant. When gun advocates suggested that citizens needed guns for protection against their government, Swawlell pointed out that the US military has a full range of weapons at its disposal to defend itself, from small arms to air craft carriers to nuclear weapons.

With Trump, he is actually saying outrageous things. Like claiming vaccinations cause autism, or that Obama's birth certificate is faked. And so much more nonsense. He never said he was joking or exaggerating. He actually meant those things.

Trump is an embarrassment.

By the way, I voted for Baker, but I'm Bauer-Kahan a chance. She might turn out to be great.

@PP,

I don't agree that Trump is mentally ill. I have no idea whether he is or isn't.

Today is a sad day
I dislike Trump as much as anyone!

But losing Catherine Baker is not a good thing.
Bauer-Kahan will go to Sacramento and like in the past we will have a candidate who is beholding to others and not the tri-valley.

Catherine Baker got stuff done! Look at BART to Livermore and beyond. The Bauer-Kahan of the world had 25 years to get something done and nothing.

I hope I'm wrong but if history is true I will not be.

Doug. Why don't you move on. I enjoy most peoples opinion. It is the self promoting, think they are intelligent crowd (you) that ruins the forums. I shall bid you good day.

Hurts you so much to admit swalwell was wrong doesn't it? Just say it - an elected official shouldnt engage in such behavior. Why is that difficult for you to accept.

@PP,

Please quit with comments like "it hurts you". They aren't constuctive.

As to your question, I don't think Swalwell did anything wrong, and would say what he said myself. If some maniac gun nut wanted to declare war on the US government rather than surrender his AR-15, then he should know that he will end up in jail or dead.

I just ran across this and thought it might bring a smile to the end of every poster’s day; apropos for out state too: Web Link

How very sad where we are at this point! After reading all the responses on this particular subject I find that it is very true that we have become a divided nation instead of a United Nation. All it takes is one rotten apple to spoil the whole bunch! Is this really the way to conduct ourselves, after all we've been taught throughout the many years of schooling and higher education. I really think each of you would throw your own Mother into the pit of lions in the arena just because she as either a republican or a democrat. We vote for leaders that are truthful and honest and help all the people not for liars , cheaters and bullies that unfortunately get to the top by playing dirty. Not all politicians have a halo surrounding their heads and neither do some of us, but if they are good let them do good, but if they are bad, get them out. This is our land and it should be run with pride and consideration for the people and by the people. Not by someone who gives himself an A+ and loves himself more than his own Mother. Love can easily turn to Hate and this is what I see in all these responses.....why do we have to turn to hate with our neighbors? If you have the answer , please enlighten me !

May we all give Thanks for the freedoms we have and God knows we don't want them lost for the lack of poor leadership. America deserves more than that and so do we as Americans. Learn to bend a little or we will all break. This Country is already broken with HATE!

Ivanka Trump, who holds a top secret security clearance in the Trump administration, caught using a personal email account for government business. Shades of Hillary.

“Ivanka Trump used personal account for emails about government business”
CNN : Web Link
- - -

Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up!!!!

"We used to have an assault weapons ban in this country. Now, nothing, not even a whisper of it."

It was a failure - and so called progressives have revealed themselves over and over again being more interested in disarming the law abiding vs. criminals. Amazing how some people think crime/violence is going to evaporate in our nation because of a ban on a certain type of firearm that is rarely used in crime, looks scary, and functions like most guns that have been around for 100 years.

"Swalwell was using hyperbole, and makes a lot of sense on second amendment issues. He doesn't go far enough in my opinion. I would eliminate the amendment entirely."

He makes no sense at all on 2nd Amendment issues and simply ignores it like most members of his party do. More gun bans for the law abiding - and more silly excuses for people who are caught abusing them (gun manufacturers, NRA, gun shows, not enough smart guns, etc.) which is already against the law.

It's ignorance and laziness for so called progressives to blame guns for violence (which have been around and legal to own in our nation for years) and demand they be banned/confiscated from those doing nothing wrong to supposedly "fix" things. No one wants to go near the failure of the "blame society" and "everyone is a victim" message/policies of the left.

@MichaelB : “Amazing how some people think crime/violence is going to evaporate in our nation because of a ban on a certain type of firearm that is rarely used in crime, looks scary, and functions like most guns that have been around for 100 years.”

Uhhh...no. Modern assault weapons which rapidly fire high velocity rounds do not function just like “most guns that have been around for 100 years”. A modern assault weapon is a completely different beast from the firearms that our Founding Fathers were acquainted with when they penned the 2nd Amendment. If by “functions like” you simply mean that both a modern assault weapon and an old flintlock are similar in that they both use a chemical propellant to accelerate a projectile, then that’s trivially true. In the same vein, you could say that a Sopwith Camel “functions like” an F-15 Eagle because both use expanding gases from the reaction of hydrocarbon fuels to generate thrust.

Some reading material:

“Assault guns are not just about mass shootings — they're also a big factor in attacks on police and other crimes”

“A study by Christopher S. Koper and colleagues at George Mason University, recently published in the Journal of Urban Health, points to an especially alarming aspect of this trend. The weapons are showing up more often not only in mass shootings such as the Las Vegas massacre, but in ordinary crimes of violence and attacks on police officers.”
LA Times: Web Link

“Criminals steal more than 237,000 guns from legal American gun owners every year” (including assault weapons, of course)
Business Insider: Web Link

- - -

"Uhhh...no. Modern assault weapons which rapidly fire high velocity rounds do not function just like “most guns that have been around for 100 years”. A modern assault weapon is a completely different beast from the firearms that our Founding Fathers were acquainted with when they penned the 2nd Amendment. If by “functions like” you simply mean that both a modern assault weapon and an old flintlock are similar in that they both use a chemical propellant to accelerate a projectile, then that’s trivially true."

Uhhh.. yes. And you've just shown everyone you know little, if anything, about guns. And please don't lecture everyone the 2nd Amendment is only about "flintlocks". The Supreme Court has already ruled it covers firearms in common use.

Gas operated/magazine fed/metallic cartridge firearm technology has been around for 100 years. So called "assault weapons" (semi automatic versions for sale to the public) function the same way. "Modern assault weapons" like the AR15 or AK47 use intermediate and/or small bore cartridges that are less powerful than the 100 year old 30-06 Springfield or 8mm Mauser bolt action "high velocity" rifle cartridges.

Read FBI statistics regarding the usage of long guns of any type vs. other types of weapons (handguns, knives,etc.) used in crime. Not the "weapon of choice" by any means. Theft of firearms is already crime - but leave it to you to blame the legal owner for it taking place.

@MichaelB : "Modern assault weapons" like the AR15 or AK47 use intermediate and/or small bore cartridges that are less powerful than the 100 year old 30-06 Springfield or 8mm Mauser bolt action "high velocity" rifle cartridges.

More attempts by you to deceive by throwing out red herrings? I’m sure that someone who is as knowledgeable about guns as you claim to be knows that the lethality of an assault weapon like an AR-15 is not simply a function of the power or kinetic energy of its rounds. What, you didn’t know that? Or (more likely) did you simply bring it up because you thought that I didn’t know that? Yes, FYI, I’m aware of the design considerations which went into the M-16, the weapon from which the AR-15 was derived.

Would debate this issue with you further, but it’s pretty clear that you’re not interested in debating honestly.

@MichaelB,

AR-15 and AK-47 shoot very different rounds. The AK-47 shoots essentially the same round as a 100 year old 30-06 Springfield. It is the same caliber (7.62mm) and has about the same bullet energy. It is the same cartridge used in a lot of hunting rifles where it is known as the .308. It is also the same round the US military uses in many mounted machine guns (aka 30 caliber machine guns).

AR-15s shoot a smaller, lower energy (but still powerful) round than AK-47s. They use a 5.56mm bullet and a smaller cartridge.

Both shoot much more powerful rounds than typical handguns.

The main thing that sets these weapons apart and makes them so dangerous is their high rate of fire and high capacity magazines. That combination.

I'm going to repost Nicki's comment

The current Democratic party is composed of at least 6 fractions, which caucus separately!!!! They are (alphabetically): Centrist wing, Conservative wing, Liberal wing, Libertarian wing, Progressive wing, Social democratic and democratic socialist wing. Surprisingly, at least maybe for Robert Adams, the LARGEST wing at present, is the PROGRESSIVE wing.

Let's just sit back and think about this for a second. There are a wide variety of views and opinions in the Democratic Party. In the Republican, there is just one: Gun-loving, immigrant-hating, anti-globalist nationalism.

Given these two options, which one would you choose? Whoever you are, if you love America and want to make it a better place (for everyone!), there is a place for you in the Democratic party.

Doug and BobB, your both wrong and I would expect as much. Any amateur can change a magazine in less that 2 seconds (try it) so it not the magazine. Its not the rate of fire because the rate of fire is controlled by how fast you can pull your finger and trigger weight (2.5-3.5 pounds). Its the velocity of the 5.56 or the .223. Each travels at 3200 feet per second (small hole going in and huge hole going out). .45 maybe 600 feet a second and 9mm maybe 1200 or so dependent upon the loads but nowhere near 3200 feet per second. Someone wrote it but more murders are committed with knives than guns...........by a lot.

In old enough to remember when people, politicians included, were able to talk politely without resorting to demeaning others in a way that belittles themselves.

If you can’t listen to others and accept the good as well as reject the bad our democracy is doomed.

Reread your comments and see is you should be ashamed for an immature act.

@Pete: "Someone wrote it but more murders are committed with knives than guns...........by a lot."

"Someone" wrote that?

Looked up the homicide rates and found some statistics on murders and murder weapons on an FBI web site. In the year 2016, there were 15,070 homicides. Of that number, 11,004 or 73% were committed by firearms. Knives or cutting instruments were used in 1,604 murders (11% of murders). That's pretty far from "someone's" claim that more murders are committed by knives than by guns. In 2016, almost 7-times more murders were committed with firearms than with knives.

"FBI Expanded Homicide Data"
FBI data: Web Link

- - -

Doug,

15,000 out of 335,00,000 or so? Its less of a problem than I ever imagined. Homicides covers any death using a firearm. Manslaughter etc......

How does 15,000 compare to drug fatalities, prescription drugs, alcohol abuse etc. Would you be for making prescription drugs and alcohol illegal? How about the death penalty or life in prison for a DWI related fatality? Give us a break.

Probably 15,000 people will die from the effects of this smoke we are breathing.

"15,000 out of 335,00,000 or so? Its less of a problem than I ever imagined."

Your suggestion is that since the annual murder rate in the US is a small fraction of the total population that murders are not a concern? That's a rather flippant attitude to take, isn't it? FYI, the annual murder rates in South Sudan, Uganda, and Chechnya are also very small fractions of their total populations.

"How does 15,000 compare to drug fatalities, prescription drugs, alcohol abuse etc. Would you be for making prescription drugs and alcohol illegal? How about the death penalty or life in prison for a DWI related fatality?"

You don't get it. There are large numbers of deaths due to all of those causes, and so we take strong steps to minimize those deaths. We require that doctor approval to get prescription drugs. We require that people be at least 18 to drink. We crack down hard - very hard - on even 1st-time DWI offenders. Now for the case of guns, do we put similar controls and regulations on the purchase and ownership of guns which are commensurate with the danger posed by them? Nope. It's pretty much the wild west in this country as for the ease of getting guns, and we have a gun homicide rate in this country that proves it. Our gun murder rate is about 70-times higher than that of the UK. Among the first world countries of western Europe, Canada, Japan, South Korea, and Australia, we have no peers. Our peers for gun murder rates are Mexico, Paraguay, Nicaragua. That's right: In terms of gun murder rates, we are a 3rd world country.

@Pete,

Where did I get something wrong? Please correct where I a fact wrong and I'll be happy to be corrected.

@Pete,

It was "MichaelB" who said that the AK-47 "uses intermediate and/or small bore cartridges that are less powerful than the 100 year old 30-06 Springfield...".

That is just wrong. The both shoot a very similar cartridge.

A semi-automatic AK-47 can shoot at a much higher rate than a typical bolt action or lever action hunting rifle.

Web Link

7.62, 5.56, 30.06 not the same all different ballistics.

If you guys are going to talk guns know your facts about ballistics.

Doug and BobB, you are arguing with people who do NOT care about any kind of facts. They have been taught to say FAKE NEWS about anything they don't like. They will argue that 1+1=3 no matter what you say. This is what I say Michael and Pete:

We're going to take your guns away and there's not a damned thing you can do about it.

Robert,

There is another thread on here about mental health. You might look into it. You seem a bit unhinges regardless of what the subject is. You should consider speaking to a professional and possibly getting away from the keyboard and a bit of fresh air.......oops we don’t have any.

It's OK. You like unhinged. You are fluent in it. You voted for unhinged and put it in the White House. I am speaking in a way you understand so now we can communicate in a meaningful way.

@Robert Adam

I’ve often noticed that a few bad apples ruin a situation for everyone else. I think that most gun owners are responsible and mature individuals, and I have no problems with them, and I don’t want the country to turn into a nanny-state. HOWEVER, I do have a problem with gun owners who are irresponsible and don’t properly secure their guns (the gun that killed Kate Steinle was stolen from the car of an irresponsible government worker). Also, I have a problem with gun owners who steadfastly refuse to agree to even moderate controls on guns to make sure that irresponsible and mentally unfit people don’t get guns. It seems that many such gun owners are sticking their heads in the sand and refusing to even acknowledge that this country does have a problem with gun violence.

Let it go Doug. It's time for plan B.

@Pete,

Are you saying the .308 (7.62mm) and 30-06 aren't similar rounds? I own rifles chambered for both and have shot them for many years. Winchester designed the .308 as a replacement for the 30-06. They are designed to do the same job.

You linked to an article that said nothing about either. This stuff is really easy to look up.

BobB,
Sorry about that. Multiple conversations at same time. 7.62 is a nato or military round and the 308 is the commercial version. 30.06 is longer and necked down. Shoots a bit flatter and can be used for most game. I just adjust the grainage dependent upon game. I’ve had everything over the years including 308 but standardized on 30.06 because you can get everywhere. I shot a 300 WSM for awhile )ouch my shoulder). I had an M1 Garland for awhile and really makes you appreciate our greatest generation.

Pete,

Glad we could find some common ground. I've never shot a 300 WSM, but I can imagine the recoil would take some getting used to...

As the saying goes in our democracy - if you disagree, then vote 'em out.

Trumpsters are afraid of many things, most of them illusory. Fear is an excellent motivator in the short run, but it fades in the longer term, as all those perceived dire risks fail to materialize. Further, the American Spirit is fundamentally optimistic. The nation and our communities (even Orange County) are re-discovering these realities, and are voting accordingly. 2016 was an sad aberration.

Congrats, Rebecca!

"We're going to take your guns away and there's not a damned thing you can do about it."

Big talk for a online ghost account who can't register with the proprietor.

And how, prey-tell, are you going to do that with a conservative Supreme Court Majority that will be on the bench for decades to come?

"It seems that many such gun owners are sticking their heads in the sand and refusing to even acknowledge that this country does have a problem with gun violence."

This country has a problem with personal responsibility. Firearms do not commit acts of violence. That should be obvious to someone with common sense.

It's already against the law to abuse guns, guns are not "germs" that cause disease, and no one is being forced to misuse them. They've been around in this nation for years and millions own them/have permits to carry them - and do nothing wrong with them. The response of so called "common sense" gun control advocates (who really don't have common sense)? Harass people doing nothing wrong, ban/confiscate their property, make excuses for the criminals, run the gun shops/shows out of business, and then call it "violence prevention".

What are you refusing to acknowledge? Time to pull your head out the sand and throw out the "blame society" and "collective guilt" message of the left. It's a failure even if it does sound good.

"It was "MichaelB" who said that the AK-47 "uses intermediate and/or small bore cartridges that are less powerful than the 100 year old 30-06 Springfield...".That is just wrong. The both shoot a very similar cartridge"

No, you are just wrong.

Nothing similar about it except the "7.62mm" part. The Soviet designed 7.62x39mm cartridge (intermediate version of the 7.62x54R) does NOT have the same muzzle velocity, generated energy, and effective range as the .30-06. There goes the "assault weapons being needlessly powerful" argument.

"I’m sure that someone who is as knowledgeable about guns as you claim to be knows that the lethality of an assault weapon like an AR-15 is not simply a function of the power or kinetic energy of its rounds."

And your point is we need to get rid of these guns because of what?
They've been available for sale for decades and are owned by millions of citizens. But according to people like you, they now suddenly "cause" violence? What percentage of crimes are committed using long guns of ANY type?

You are not interested in debating honestly. Back to the irritating "gun did it" excuse/rationalization vs. why people practice violence in the first place.

"Doug and BobB, you are arguing with people who do NOT care about any kind of facts. They have been taught to say FAKE NEWS about anything they don't like."

The "fake" part is coming from the political left on this issue. They have no "facts", just feelings. Guns are just plain icky. Anyone(regardless of their background) who has one is immediately seen as a deviant/misfit that puts everyone at risk and needs to be blamed/stigmatized for violence - and eventually disarmed. So much for their tolerance and inclusion message.

Despite guns being available in this nation for years and owned/carried responsibly by millions, they are now suddenly the "cause" of violence by people claiming to know better - but really don't. People who misuse them are just helpless "victims" of gun manufacturer profits, supporters of the 2nd Amendment, magazines over 10 rounds,grandpa's gun collection, etc. Now who sounds like they have been "taught" something silly that's putting everyone else at risk?

"Also, I have a problem with gun owners who steadfastly refuse to agree to even moderate controls on guns to make sure that irresponsible and mentally unfit people don’t get guns."

Back to the "moderate" thing again? Nothing "moderate" whatsoever about banning things for people doing nothing wrong, banning a gun show at the Cow Palace, telling people their property is now contraband, running gun shops out of business/not letting them operate, revoking valid FFLs, etc.

Gun control supporters simply don't want people owning guns at all despite the "common sense gun safety" message. You would think people would catch on after more restrictions are being proposed (for the law abiding) in states like California, New Jersey, and New York - that already have strict regulations on guns. They have already come out in support of/praising what other "civilized" nations have done to supposedly "reduce violence" - prohibiting private ownership and/or confiscating them. I have a problem with people who continually give them the moral high ground and fall for their "heads I win, tails you lose" message.

If people are going to lose their rights, the case should be made why someone is prohibited and/or incapacitated. No more of the feel good, irritating "collective guilt" or "society is to blame" nonsense of progressives.

Here is something which I believe we should all be able to agree on and is simple to correct if big money was not involved. I have my FFL and had to take a class on gun safe verification and the national database and background check before selling a firearm. When you purchase a firearm you have to fill out that form in the computer which asks you.

have you ever committed a felony?
have you ever been accused of misdemeanor domestic violence?
have you been dishonorably discharged?
are you or have you ever been under the influence of prescription drugs?
are you or have you ever been in the care of a mental health professional?

The purpose the questions is twofold. First they want to know if you have done any of the above and secondly they are looking for you to lie. In either case you are immediately disqualified from the purchase. As soon as you hit send they know the answer to all except one question.

The interesting part about this is that there is a handshake for each of the questions except one. There is no linkage because of medical privacy laws about whether you are or have been under the care of a mental health professional. In my mind this is the loophole which needs to be closed but you have big money in medical lobbys and they put cash in our elected officials pockets.

No right or left minded person wants a firearm in the hands of a person not mental there and that should go for anything else which might cause harm.

and Happy Thanksgiving everyone

Personally, I supported Catharine Baker, but I wish Rebecca all the best. I encourage her to embrace the moderate nature of our district and to put her constituents above party partisanship.

Pete,

The one common denominator with most, if not all, mass shootings is that the perpetrators have had some mental illness.

I think we're long past the point where ones MENTAL medical history MUST be used to judge whether someone can legally buy a gun of any type. As a second amendment fan, I have to say that this seems like common sense to me now.

It doesn't mean that those with mental conditions won't buy guns illegally, but they'll have to go through hoops to do so.

Agree 100%

Disagree 100%

That thumping sound? No worries - it's just a few contributors to this post, repeatedly beating their chests.

And don't bother feeding them today - they've already swallowed the never-ending NRA propaganda feast - hook, line and stinker.

"And don't bother feeding them today - they've already swallowed the never-ending NRA propaganda feast - hook, line and stinker."

Explaining how guns actually function, who owns them, who is doing what with them, and why we have problems with them is apparently above the level of comprehension/understanding for some people.

The NRA has a membership of roughly 5 Million. The US has a population of roughly 330 million. How much influence does the NRA actually have other than a scapegoat.

NObody who falls for propaganda thinks they've fallen for propaganda.

But you have. Have a happy Thanksgiving - for your family's sake, I hope this stuff is out of your system.

Over/out.

@MichaelB,

You're right, it's about 2/3 the bullet energy of a 30-06.