Very sad. Can some one remind him when the country is even in more debt, we are paying sky high taxes that he voted for this. He of course will find an excuse.... he is like the rest of them......an idiot.

Good by US as a super power. All your budget is going to care for the majority of central america that loves free health care.

Why is it most Americans get not say in this.....

I am so delighted that tomorrow is the special day....VIVA!

Keep on working Teabaggers, pull out those checky checky books and pay up...I want health care! tee hee hee, tee hee hee...

THANK YOU!

I am glad he is voting for the bill. I do have reservations, we all do, but I do know it will serve the greater good.

Pleasanton Mom -- I know you are disappointed, but many of us in this community truly, authenically need this bill to pass. Maybe now you can turn away from Glenn Beck the ideologue and toward your own hometown neighbors. Trust me, he can afford any medical services he desires. We cannot.

Well done Congressman. Thanks for listening to your constituents - all of them, not just the crazies on this forum.

Good job Jerry, I hope you go down in flames in November which I am quite sure you will. You are a coward and a joke.

I've looked at the bill online and can't determine how this legislation lowers health costs.

Can anyone name/point to three ways that this legislation lowers health care costs? Not health insurance costs, but the true costs of health care. Lower prescription costs? Lower ER costs? Lower doctor visits? Anything?

Thank you Congressman Jerry McNerney. You have again made the right choice and the right choice for us in District 11. We appreciate your study of the Health Care Reform package and you correct decision after reading the bill. You leadership on this issue has been fantastic and we are all going to be proud of your YES vote. Our family and our neighbors all knew you would be making the right decision and continue your fight for what is right.

T-O-A-S-T in November

Thank you Congressman McNerney. T-O-A-S-T in November - whatever. You have done the right thing!

Great decision Jerry....remember that it has always been the progressives who have passed historical legislations that have made this country better. I believe the Republicans will regret being on the wrong side of this vote.

"remember that it has always been the progressives who have passed historical legislations that have made this country better."

OK, I give up. What are they?

I'm glad McNerney likes change. I like change too. Elizabeth Emken is my idea of a great change. When McNerney retires in November, I guess he won't have to worry about being on this health plan that he thinks is so great for others.

Congressman McNerney:

Thanks for doing the right thing on Healthcare. Thirty-one million
Americans thank you for providing some needed support that has been missing in their lives.

McNerny is going to be BOUNCED hard in November, along with the rest of his Deamoncrat buddies. Face facts. More taxes, more entitlements, and more government = socialism. Socialism KILLS economies. We will be the next Greece.

Private Sector, you are clueless how elections work. It takes a MAJORITY across the board to win in Nov. That ALWAYS means picking the MOST electable nominee in the PRIMARY. You are the type that always pick a guaranteed loser !! THAT's how CA has the worst DEMS in the country. wise up for your children's sake..this is an important...don't nominate a loser...unite and think victory in NOV!..that's the ONLY place that matters.

Aaah! The Pelosi puppet finally acknowledged his vote for this crappy bill. I'll all for a government health safety net and help for those with catastrophic illnesses, but this current Bill is a sham. Even with his cadre of supporters posting to this thread, I think he has committed political suicide. I will be the most surprised person in Pleasanton if ole Jer' wins reelection.

Thanks for getting off of the fence, McNerny. You can count on my family to vote against you in November.

Just one more Dem to work against in Nov.

And to Jane who said " many of us in this community truly, authentically need this bill to pass. "

Glad to know I will and many others will now be footing your responsibility for you and your family.

enough said

McNerney did the right thing. Thank you!

McNerney, this was your big chance to show that you indeed are of the mammalian species, i.e. that you have some evidence of a backbone.

You have failed miserably (as predicted by your record of voting 97% consistent with Pelosi.)

The harm you will have caused to America may be irreparable.

You are a loathesome waste of our hard-earned tax dollars.

Good job Congressman. Don't listen to the detractors. They don't even know what they are talking about. Let them show you how this will hurt America more then the trillions in debt W put us in from the surplus he was left. Nobody was crying then I bet. Anyways. Good job!

Good job Congressman. Don't listen to the detractors. They don't even know what they are talking about. Let them show you how this will hurt America more then the trillions in debt W put us in from the surplus he was left. Nobody was crying then I bet. Anyways. Good job!

Nice job Jerry!!!

Can just one of the 'health care' supporters explain to me where Congress has the right to mandate that Americans buy government health insurance? Where? Is out constitution now obsolete? Do you honestly think that throwing our constition into the trash is a good thing?

Please read the constitution. If you can find a single word about Congress having the authority to have anything to do with health care or insurance, I'd be thankfull to hear it.

I called your office on Friday and asked them what was your position on this health care vote. I knew the answer, a very rude guy told me that you were undecided Congressman McNerney. I told him that I was insulted because I knew he and you were lying to me and everyone in your district, it is well know that you voted for this bill the first time and your support of it has not wavered. Don't get too comfortable in your seat Jerry! It is nots yours, that seat and job we pay you to do is ours and when you stop listening and lying to us we WILL take it back. I think you are a lier and a coward and I promise you that soon you will be doing what you do best, you will be unemployed. You will have plenty of time to walk your cat on a leash, (Comment partially removed by Pleasanton Weekly Online staff) and run unsuccessful companies from your garage. You are a lier and a joke!

Thank you Jerry!!! I support this bill. Finally!

Thank you to Congressman McNerney for listening and voting YES! I am so impressed with Congressman McNerney's process for deciding how to vote -- he asked his constituents and then he followed their direction! I received an online survey from him asking what I thought of healthcare. I responded and am DELIGHTED that he listened!

McNerney - when you campaigned you made sure you didn't prominently display the "D", so you could suck in Reupublican votes by appealing to the center of both parties. Kiss all of that goodbye now. You maybe could have justified a yes vote on a healthcare bill passed in the light of day, during the work week, with your head held high. But to vote for this piece of scamming underhanded backroom dealt shenanigan, you are spitting in the faces of this community who did NOT vote for a Democratic Pelosi-puppet, but istead someone who appeared to be representing all of us. You show your true colors today, and we will remember.

Still looking for how this legislation lowers health care costs, anywhere.....
I see a lot of movement regarding health insurance costs, taxes and insurance rules/regulations, but nothing on how costs are lowered. As long as costs are going up, someone has to pay.......

Well, at least it will be clear for whom we won't vote for now. I believe every person in congress that voted for this abomination should be tried for treason for voting for a bill that they know directly violates the constitution that they took an oath to uphold. As mentioned many times before, where in the constitution does it say the federal government has the right to mandate health insurance? Since when is a good, like health care, a right? At the minimum, each yes vote congressman should be tried for lying under oath.

Not only will I vote against you, along with my family, I will actively campaign against you from this day forward. You are a disgrace to congress, a disgrace to this community, and definitely a disgrace to the country and our Founding Fathers, in whose face you spat with your idiotic declaration.

May you rot for a lifetime with this vote.

But thanks for making it crystal clear where you stand on the constitution.

Good Job McNerney Sir, your on the right side of history!
We will be out there for you in November, just like we were friday afternoon!

$650 billion in new taxes! All of you congratulating Rep. McNerney ought to be asking yourselves how in the world are we (and more importantly, our kids) going to pay for this? More taxes on business and indiduals = a less competitive US economy = LESS U.S. jobs. Connect the dots, folks!! The system needs fixing but NOT this fix.

Whether his opponent is Emken, Harmer or Amador I will be campaigning HARD against Mr. McNerney immedately after he casts his vote against the will of his 11th District.

As lawyers ask, "Cui Bono"? Who benefits? The Socialist Government, Stupid! The PEOPLE NEVER BENEFIT under a Socialist Government.

Excerpt from article:

"For starters, Obama obviously believes, as Barnum did, that "there's a sucker born every minute," and he thinks that selling his entire socialist plan for America completely depends on it. Obama's radical circus has been traveling around this great land for over a year now, with the ringmaster-in-chief telling everyone that his economic plans are working to perfection, even though the facts tell a completely different story. But the president knows that he has to convince enough suckers that his plans are actually working in order to continue his socialist agenda -- so the radical circus travels on.

Obama also employs the same strategy as P. T. Barnum when it comes to selling his hoax: Make outrageous claims about your product, never stay in one place too long, and always keep the circus moving. This strategy worked well for Barnum, because while the attraction to see the bizarre and unbelievable lured many people in, they were never given a chance to see it clearly or long enough to verify its authenticity. And if people ever realized that they had been taken, by the time they came back to voice their complaint, the circus would be gone.

President Obama's pitch for health care is a great example of how he uses P. T. Barnum's sucker strategy. With his radical circus moving from town to town, pitchman Obama shows up making outrageous claims to lure people into his health care sideshow. Standing on his soapbox, the handsome, well-dressed, fast-talking radical pitchman guarantees authenticity and satisfaction. "Step right up before it's too late, and see a universal health care system that will be the envy of the entire world," shouts the persuasive pitchman. Unfortunately, by the time many people realize they have been taken, Obama's radical circus will be long-gone.

President Obama has eclipsed P. T. Barnum's wildest dreams by pitching the biggest economic and social hoax in the history of this great nation. All that is left for this audacious ringmaster-in-chief to do is sell the hoax and implement his radical socialist plan for America.

Web Link

Chicken Little, I just looked outside and the sky is still up there.
I look forward to standing out there with you, although on the opposite side.
(don't forget to bring your sign, you must have been in a coma for the last eight years)

Pleasanton Mom wrote: "As lawyers ask, "Cui Bono"? Who benefits? "

GREAT QUESTION!

Who benefits from health care reform? Seniors, the poor, people who work for small businesses, etc. In short, 32 MILLION American citizens.

Who benefits if it fails? Corrupt insurance companies, as well as Republicans, who are deeply ashamed that they squandered their recent time in power and live in DEADLY TERROR that Obama and a Democratic Congress might actually do something significant and positive a little more than a year into Obama's presidency.

Pleasanton Mom--if you really are a shill, as many have suggested, you've brought attention to the elephant in the room. It really wasn't in the interest of the GOP and the insurance lobby to bring up the "cui bono?" question.

But take heart--if your corporate overlords fire you or your Republican masters cut you loose, at least you'll get to be among the first to enjoy the new health care system!

Diana,

By PM's own admission, she only started paying attention to politics when Obama was elected. I'm sure you can figure out why. She paid no attention to what Bush did, which makes her hysteria over Obama so much more ridiculous. She has no credibility, neither do her followers.

Janna,

So what you're saying is that PM may have been "inspired" to take an interest in politics by the election of America's first black president?

Ahh Janna -

True colors come out.

You are so frsutrated with PM's rational posts that now YOU ARE CALLING HER A RACIST!

What a total hypocrite. Did you take your cue from Rep. Lewis?

You should retire from this board now as you will forever be known by what you are - a bitter resentful hypocritcal bigot yourself.

Ah Dan, only moments ago you chided Janna on another thread about using such words. Now, you call her a "total hypocrite" and "a bitter resentful hypocritical bigot."

Whose true colors are showing now?

Nurse -

Read them together and in context and I am merely pointing out the hypocricy.

But you do have to actually read them, and think them over just a bit, and not just follow me around to post some drivel whenever I post a cogent comment.

It scares me that you might actually be a nurse.

Ann -- How dare you suggest that YOU will be paying for my medical coverage! I support this bill because we have been victimized by our former insurance carrier, and were abruptly canceled when we sued them.

We sold our house in Ptown where we had lived for 17 years and moved into an apartment to cover the costs of my husband's treatments. We have been deemed uninsurable by other carriers due to the ubiquitous "pre-existing conditions". We have been responsible, we have taken care of our problem ourselves. All I want is a level playing field, which this bill starts to provide.

You owe me an apology, Ann.

I am delighted because today is a historic day. Finally, all residents will be able to access health care! HOORAY!

LISTEN UP: You keep on working, paying your bills, taxes, etc. because YOUSE IS GONNA PAY FOR HEALTH CARE FOR ALL RESIDENTS..."illegals" included"!

If you can't pay, then you better just pack your bags and go back to where your ancestors came from. I MEAN IT! GO AWAY...FAR AWAY!

No matter how angry you get, cut 'n paste, youse will still have pay for the care of others...it's the right thing to do. Boiling? tee hee hee, tee hee hee...

SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE AMERICAN...SIGNED, CHOLO

Jane -

The real trqagedy here is that NOTHING in this bill would have helped you.

YOu will still be cancelled if you sue your insurance company. That is SOP.

And your premiums will still be through the roof if you have pre-existing conditions. And your premiums will still be jacked up if you acquire new conditions.

So why in the world are you supporting this if not to get some financial relief?

And incidentally, if you do benefit financially to the tune of even $1.00, where do you think that money is going to come from? Since the insurance companies can raise rates at will (Obama dropped the provision of the bill that would have allowed the Fed to limit unreasonable rate hikes) THEY WILL PASS ON ANY SAVINGS YOU EXPERIENCE FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY TO THE REMAINING POLICYHOLDERS.

So if both you and Ann have the same carrier, then she actually will be footing part of the bill for you albeit a very very small part - and not likely anyway because your personal financial condition will not improve anyway.

That is the real tragedy - but Pelosi will be happy!

So recognizing someone's motivation is now frustration? I am not frustrated with PM, I laugh at her frankly. Every subsequent post she makes shows her desperation, naivete, and willingness to be a tool of the GOP. I think she has been severely "influenced" to the point of being scared out of her mind. That is not a rational way to make decisions that will affect us all.

At least I will have the future option of paying those through the roof premiums for coverage. At this time, even that is not a possibility. It is not about saving money for me -- it is about having coverage, any coverage.

I enjoy reading the comments here from people who are obviously McNerney staffers. They read like press releases. I will also enjoy hearing him introduced as "former two term congressman Jerry McNerney." A gutless shill for Obaman and Pelosi.

Jane -

Don't be so naive.

With both the public option and the ability to control unreasonable premiums jettisoned by Obama so he could get a bill, any bill, but a bill before he goes on his trip, scammed up to him so he can sign it so he can claim victory, your situation will not improve.

If in fact they ever do force a carrier to take on a policyholder, with no ability to control premiums, you will simply be charged more in premiums then it is costing you in treatments and you are no better off.

Think about it. If the insurance carriers really are that bad and only make decisions in their own financial self interest, then they will continue to do so any way they can.

That is why the public option and the ability to prevent unreasonable rate hikes was so incredibly important to this bill. Without those, nothing really changes other than the Democrats can point to them having passed the bill.

Why do you think they are going to such underhanded shenanigans to pass something? It's all smoke and mirrors, but in the meantime we have seen the fallout already. Insurance carriers have been jackingup rates big time lately and that is already 4 years before they have to.

So we all get screwed for the greater glory of the Dems!

Until November when it will change and get repealed and then what? We'ss till be stuck with the premiums.

And by the way - why in the world did you not change carriers before you sued your insurance company?

Whether you agree or disagree with McNerney, I don't understand how him or any other Congressman had time to fully read the bill. Why don't they wait a week, or a couple more days, and actually read the bill and make sure they are making the right choice (whether it is yes or no). It is not a good idea to rush one of the most important bills.

To Dan Doerr,

Quite simply, everything you said to jane about how HCR supposedly won't help her is wrong. After HCR is passed it will be illegal to drop people from their policies because of a diagnosis and it will be illegal to exclude her due to pre-existing conditions. You can make the claim that they'll just pass her higher costs on to the rest of their customers, but the problem with that is that regulatory boards will now oversee rate increases so they can't just do it on a whim...they'll have to justify it. They can pass those increases onto their customers all they want, but they'll also have a risk pool that's 31 million customers larger than it is now so the risk is spread more evenly and thus won't incur large costs increases. This is the basic point of HCR...make it available to more people which increases the risk pool (more healthy people paying for insurance to cover the smaller percentage of them that are sick...costs lower for everyone). It's not rocket science, but it does take a bit of thought to actual understand it, instead of having some moronic right wing talking head on the radio telling you what to think.

This is the stupid you people don't seem to grasp. You call up McNereney telling him not to pass HCR because it'll make doctors employees of the government, or that we'll be like russia, or some dictatorship...you say mind numbingly stupid things to argue against the bill...no substance, no reality, no thoughtfulness, and then you curse him when he has the audacity to ignore your stupid and do the right thing. Fine, vote him out in November...you've been predicting that to happen the last 2 election cycles, but don't be shocked when he's reelected by a wide margin of the people in his district who actually have a brain and realize he's a capable man who does the right thing for the right reasons, not to placate the insane ramblings of a minority of morons in his district...

Pro Law,

It really doesn't matter to the Democrats what's in this bill, because they have stated over and over that this is just a "starter home" for what they really plan to do - wipe out the free market insurance companies and force us all onto a single-payer death-trap Government-run HMO. They don't care what's in this bill.

to pro-law,

The level of stupid in your post is overwhelming. This bill in various stages has gone through FIVE different congressional committees, has been voted on already in the both houses in december, has gone through dozens of drafts and countless manuevers. Sure, the final text of the bill was released a few days ago, but 99.9% of the bill has been set in stone since last summer with little to no change. To claim that this is being rushed, after nearly 11 months of deliberation is just stupid to the point of infinity...plus, as promised, this bill in its entirety was posted on the internet for 72 hours. That's 3 days, for the mathematically challenged...

More to pro-law, you said: "wipe out the free market insurance companies and force us all onto a single-payer death-trap Government-run HMO"

Are you referring to a system similar to Medicare, that death-trap government-run HMO that is so despised that even teabaggers are holding up signs saying "keep the government out of my medicare!" Do you even sit down and think about the level of stupid in your comments?

Dear stupid -

No. What I said was you will be dropped if you sue your insurance company. Just like she was this time around. She was not dropped for the illness, but for something that got by the regulators - because she sued them. If you do not think that this will happen - for some reason - in the future, I ask that you wake up, join the real world and acknowledge real life. But in any event,m this bill will NOT affect that.

Secondly, not talking about passing premiums on to other policyholders - but again, the part of hcr that allowed Fed to limit unreasonable premium increases has been dropped, so they will absolutely pass on any new costs.

So when insurance carrier quotes premiums to applicants with pre-existing conditions, they will be so high as to make the whole thing the same as if there were no coverage.

That was why public option was so important. But rather than fight in the light of day for that option, the Dems have chosen to just get a bill for Obama to sign (not even really passed)before he goes on his trip.

And the real issues remain.

And incidentally, read my post again and tell me where I am spouting bs from radio guys. YOU are clearly the one pointing fingers and calling names here.

Web Link

Video of Congressman Ryan showing CBO's own estimate that $662 BILLION will be added to our DEFICIT in the first 10 years - when you take out the Democrats's double-counted numbers.

anti-stupid brigade,

I didn't say, "More to pro-law, you said: "wipe out the free market insurance companies and force us all onto a single-payer death-trap Government-run HMO." I think you are referring to a different poster.

I understand the health care debate has been debated for some time, but the final bill has only been given three days. The health bill may be good or may be bad, but there just has not been enough time for this final bill. One article has said:

"The Obama administration’s chief actuary at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) notified Republican leaders Saturday that the “very tight time frame” and “complexity” of the Democrats’ health spending bill would prevent them from fully analyzing the costs and efficacy of the bill before the House voted on the legislation."

Why don't we wait until it is all is understood?

Correction -

Why don't we wait until it is all understood?

I notice that no one, no one, has tried to respond to my simple question. Again, can ONE of you 'health care' supporters point out where in the United States Constitution it says Congress can force me to buy health insurance, or to pay for yours. Where? Where in our constitution is Congress given this power? So if it's not there, and it isn't, why are all of you so happily willing to trash our constitution?

westsider,

Can you point out to me in the constitution where it says the government can require you to purchase car insurance before driving a car? In fact, where does it even stipulate that you have to get a license for your car or even one to drive? I'm not a big fan of the mandate, either, but for those that can't afford it, the government will generously subsidize costs for those with even modest incomes. The only way the costs increases for HC will be slowed is if everyone buys into the system, spreading the risk pool, which means more healthy people will be in the system and the costs of the smaller percentage who are sick will be more than accounted for. It is a shame that the public option wasn't included to provide a competition mode for certain healthcare providers that have near monopoly control in their regions, but that can be added later. The point of the mandate is a stick to get people to join the system or pay a fine for not doing so, because honestly, to choose not to have insurance after HCR is passed is to basically make yourself a burden on all the millions who pay for their health insurance and if that's what you're going to do you should pay a fine for that. No different than if you are fined heavily for not carrying auto insurance and you get into an accident.

So if you want to go down the constitutional route on HCR, be prepared to lose...again...

"Correction -

Why don't we wait until it is all understood?"

Pro-Law: I sympathize that you do not understand the health care reform. Many of us here do, however. With respect, it is unreasonable to expect the nation to go on hold until you personally can catch up with the rest of us.

After all, we're not a socialist society.

Nurse shark,

I was referring to the White House's chief actuary at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. The chief actuary said he hasn't had enough time to review the bill and answer questions.

I wasn't asking the nation to wait for me. What does what I said have to do with socialism?

So I wonder what McNenery got in exchange for his vote. A new VA hospital in Livermore? No. A better 680/580 exchange? No. Lots of $$$ in his campaign fund? BINGO!! He knows that is the one thing he will need this fall.

Here's why the auto insurance analogy doesn't work:

September 22, 2009
Obama's Elusive Auto Insurance Analogy
By C. Edmund Wright

Team Obama and the media continue to flail away at an auto insurance analogy in an attempt to sell Obama Care. It is almost funny how they seem not to understand even the most basic concept of insurance. Really guys, it's so easy even a caveman can do it.


Perhaps we should show some compassion and give them a break on this. After all, as good liberal elites they might live the limousine / Gulfstream life or the Seinfeld big city walk everywhere life. Who needs auto insurance? Hell, who needs autos? As Senator Kennedy demonstrated, those things can only get you in trouble.


Somewhere along the line though, the D.C.-Manhattan liberal elites were told that the personal auto Neanderthal set in fly-over country is forced by law to have auto insurance. Ahah! A precedent for government mandated insurance. Let's run with it.


And they have tried to run with it. Instead, they have come across as smug yet hopelessly out of touch with reality as they clumsily trotted out the idea that it's not so bad or unusual for the nanny state to mandate insurance. Hey, we make you carry auto insurance. What's the big deal?


Let's start with the premise that government mandates auto insurance in the first place.


Government mandates only a portion of auto insurance. The only auto insurance that is mandated is liability. You do not have to cover yourself or your stuff. You simply have to cover everyone else against damages you and your vehicle might do to them or their stuff.


Now in this debt ridden society, this might come as a shock to many. It has been drummed into us that we have to carry "comprehensive and collision" insurance on our car when we buy, and many assume it is demanded by government.


Not so -- but the discussion opens up some valid comparisons to health care.


Comp/collision is mandated by the owner of your vehicle, likely a bank or leasing company. When you drive your 65 thousand dollar BMW off the lot after putting down your "first and last payment" of about 2 grand, someone else is on the hook for the other 63 K.


And that someone - bank or leasing company -- is who demands that you protect their collateral. This is not a government mandate. It is part of your lease or loan agreement with the bank which is simply a contract made in what we used to call the "free enterprise system."


After all, if you were to total that car two miles down the road, you are not the one to take the big financial hit.


Thus if you own your vehicle free and clear, it is not mandated by any entity that you carry comp/collision. You only have to carry the liability.


So relative to Obama's case, only one portion of auto insurance is mandated by law and it is not the half that has anything to do with protecting the policy owner. (Where is Roe v. Wade privacy when you need it?)


So half of Team Obama's brilliant metaphor caves in right there.


And the other half -- the liability half -- does not apply to health insurance. This analogy would only work if health insurance applied to us injuring or causing others to get sick. Clearly that is not what health insurance does, thus wiping out the other half of the Obama analogy.


This does open up some valid and teachable correlations between auto and health however. They just don't work in favor of Obama Care.


Consider:


With regard to your own vehicle: if you own it outright and it still has a lot of value, you likely will still choose to insure their vehicle. The reason? It is good risk management and financial planning to pay a few hundred dollars to insure an asset that is worth tens of thousands, because to lose it would be devastating financially. If the vehicle is not worth much -- like say a clunker -- it is not good risk management to insure it.


What? You mean auto insurance is simply a kind of financial planning? I do. Ditto health insurance. This is what all insurance is - financial planning by way of risk management. It is not a right or a moral obligation. It is simply a way to infuse predictability into your cash flow equation. OMG! I thought it was about compassion and children and working families and evil corporations and rights and hope and change and so on.


Nope. Just cold analytical financial planning. And if we would analyze our current debate through that prism, it becomes much easier to grasp -- and the auto metaphor does indeed inform.


As a financial planning maneuver, it makes a lot of sense for you insure yourself against a dread disease that will wipe you out (the way you insure an owned car that is worth a lot of money.) We used to call this "major medical." If you need the 6 or 7 figure heart or cancer treatment, the major medical kicks in and handles it.


Conversely, it is not good financial planning to burden your employer, insurance company, doctors, pharmacy and so on with so much paperwork that your 20 dollar prescription costs 150 dollars -- most of which is to pay for that paperwork so you can get it for 10 dollars on your co-pay. Yet we have come to believe that this is how health insurance should work. Talk about voodoo economics!


It is also instructive to work the analogy backwards. Auto insurance would be totally screwed up if we did it the way we do health insurance. That would make every oil change and tire rotation much more expensive and thus your auto insurance would be much more expensive too for the coverage you really need.


So the applicable analogy is this: health insurance should work like auto insurance in that the coverage should only involve the major medical portion. This is the portion where you might have some "liability" to others such that if you are rushed to the ER and get a few hundred thousand dollars worth of care -- the costs will be shared by others who do pay for insurance or by the providers themselves.


Since we are already paying for that now, Team Obama could easily sell a practical plan to mandate that everyone carry some type of catastrophic coverage or prove that they can pay for any care they need themselves. When you take out all the routine expenses, this coverage would not cost very much.


That is not what the pushers of Obama Care want, however. They want us all to carry coverage that pays for routine visits and runny noses and stubbed toes and so on such that we are all subjects to a huge government bureaucracy and our freedoms are suffocated with paperwork. And they are trying to sell it with the auto analogy. It does not fly.


The government mandated portion of auto insurance does not cover tire changes and wiper fluid replacement and new floor mats - but you can bet that any mandated health care coverage will include just these type of routine issues.


This should be turned around on Team Obama. You want to use the auto example? Fine. Just stick to the major medical expenses. We refuse to pay for your new hubcaps and the paperwork to process the co pay.


This is so easy even a liberal can do it, no offense to cave men. I can't wait til they try the Homeowners insurance analogy.

Page Printed from: Web Link

September 22? Can't find anything about the current bill, eh?

:-)

Did the auto insurance analogy somehow change between September 22 and now?

Actually, it's irrelevant--I just looked it up and it's a straw-man argument anyway.

hey, pleasanton moron mom. Do you even read what you post? The question was in terms of the constitutionality of a mandate. Your post that you didn't even bother to read doesn't address the constitutionality of the mandate. It just attacks the analogy between mandated auto insurance and mandated health insurance coverage. Please, for the love of god, start thinking for yourself, or at the very least start reading what you blindly post...

Easy fix: www.goehringforcongress.com. Donate, volunteer, whatever it takes to get rid of McPelosi.

Thanks 'HR is AOK,' I was hoping someone like you would make the car insurance analogy. No one mandates that you buy a car, so therefore no one MANDATES that you have car insurance, or that you pay for someone else's car insurance. Not the same argument at all. Can you say 'unconstitional?' I'll bet the Supreme Court can. And will.

And on a personal note, I'm truly sorry that people don't seem to understand that our constitution is being shredded before our very eyes. I think that's the real story in this socialistic brouhaha.

Does not having a car mean that you may die from lack of it?

The analogy is wrong, but not in the way you think. Comparing cars to people is what's wrong. That's beyond apples and oranges. What does "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" mean to you? Could our founding fathers have really envisioned a country so populated, or so many people sick and diseased? Could they have further envisioned an entire industry working so hard to make money off the same sick and diseased people?

BTW,If you don't think you're paying for someone else's car insurance, please explain why they raise rates and how those rates are calculated. I had Allstate for a few years and they raised my rates every six months even though neither me nor my husband had any accidents or tickets.

Janna,

I bet the only reason you have car insurance is because you have not figured out a way for the taxpayers to pay for it...........correct?

Pablo, straight up you are a jerk!

So you think people should not receive unemployment benefits? What is your major malfunction that you feel the need to criticize people in financial difficulty? Can you even put your hate into words?

Janna,

I do not believe anyone should get unemployment. It does not help very much and just allows people like you and your husband to be lazy and teacher poor habits to your children who in turn will be lazy or dependents on the state which has no money because of lazy people like your family.

Thank you Congressman McNerney. We applaud your courage and will work actively for your reelection in November. The MAJORITY of your constituents applaud your courageous vote today.

We support you Jerry! Good work!

Well Pablo, that's too damn bad. We paid into it and we get money out of it. As a non-citizen, you don't get a say.

You must be independently wealthy to make that statement because if we didn't receive that measly amount every month, we'd be homeless. But that's okay by you right? I already have to choose between bills, rent and food, but you're cool with that right? You'd rather see me and my children living in a shelter or in our car than receiving entitlement benefits. Aren't you sweet?

Pablo, it is by the grace of the universe that you are unable to vote. It is a good day.

About an hour from the vote, just looked outside, yep the sky is still where it is suppose to be.
Some of the comments on this board are r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s, name calling etc..really people?
If one more person talks about this reform contributing to the debt when they were SILENT when GW was spending/funding his war "games" I think I may scream.....

Good-by Jerry. Walmart is hiring greeters. Another 100,000 jobs or so gone and tax increases for the unfunded mandates in this mess of a law. You and Ms Boxer are no different and will no experience the same fate. You and your socialist finds will expereince teh wrath of hard working American's not looking for a handout like the bunch on this blog living off the governments breast.

Do you have any idea how much we subsidize that corporation that is Wal-Mart so they don't have to provide benefits to their employees? They cost our state a ton of money, but yet you think they're great? Huh?

Janna - no, I don't know - how much are we subsidizing Wal-Mart, and in what way are we doing this?

Jerry McNerney - you are my HERO! I am SO glad I voted for you (and will continue to do so).

Subsidizing Walmat Janna? Now I know why this state a country are such a mess. People without a brain voting to people with no clue.

Congrtulations to all you lazy citizens unable to find a way to pay for your own families health care. Just give up and let Mama Obama take care of you. Yes, I am in the income level that will have to pay for you and all your rugrats, illegal alines and bums, but its not that big a deal. You all have your care rationed and let the governement pick your doctor and prescribe your treatment. No matter what, smart hard working people who refuse to let other people take care of them will be able to pay for quality care no matter what the price and there wil always be us with the real power. That's life, they way it is now and the way it will always be. So Janna and all the rest of you high fiving each other, pick up your food stamps and free health care and exist...instead of making something of your life you can be proud of. Jerry's done, so is Boxer and the rest of the communists who have runied this once great state. 15% unemployment or more for the forseable future. Nice works dems and unions...I laugh, because I still eat at Haps 2 nights a week and fill up my Suburban the same amount. I am ashamed of my country and President tonight but I also know the tide will change this November.
The only good thing is that the governement will pay for yoru abortions and I won't have to pay for all of your kids.

Wards of the state. So many pathetic folk wanting to feed off governements breast. How sad what kind of country we have become with the Chicago shyster and his minons like Jerry pulling the wool over our eyes behind closed doors. Man this sucks

Suck it up! You'll be paying and paying, just the way it should be. Should we call the wahbulance for you?

Amen Realist.

When the highly taxed like you and me move out of this State, let's watch from a distance how the welfare-addicted like Janna survive. All she does is rant, complain and demand more handouts. I truly pity her children.

Of course you missed the point Janna, obviously your not too bright. I can pay and pay...and pay and pay...and not have to "suck it up." My sons will grow up to be self sufficent and succesful young men. Your will grow up to be....well, the will grow up to be just like you. How sad. :)

I'm not on welfare you morons! Can you even read English! Who's stupid?

Your children will grow up to believe they are special and will never fall on hard times. As such they will be unprepared for real life. I'm sure you're teaching them to care for others, as if..... now that's sad.

Who's going to pay for this so called Health Care Reform? Those who thinks they are getting for free are fooling themselves. People wake up and do your homework and not just be so gleeful because if something is too good to be true. IT IS!!

p.s. McNerny is a coward and will not get my vote next time.

Thank you Congressmen Jerry McNerney. Another job well done. YES WE CAN!!!!!

My children are special Janna. Yours will just be like everyone elses, under educated, under motivated and the worse thing of all NORMAL. And I AM caring for others, in a 50% tax bracket I take care of every loser and lazy slacker that is not able to take care of themselves...like you. If your not on welfare, you might as well take the leap that the almighty obama wants you and go on it. After all, you welfare babes are his voters. Again, no matter how bad it gets I will be able to take care of my family, You need the governement to take care of yours. Nows what's really sad? My kids will never have to fall on hard times, they will always have an advantage over kids of people like you indeed expolit them. And we worked hard to ensure this.

Good for you on being so successful! Now if only everyone else will not grow old or get sick and then they can pay for themselves in perpetuity.

All those "invincible young" ones will never get old! They'll NEVER need health care!

>My kids will never have to fall on hard times

Perhaps not financially, but they still have to suffer a rage-filled, shrieking lunatic for a mother.

I kinda feel bad for them, actually.

Nice rant. So now it doesn't matter if I'm on welfare or not, you still want to crap on me. Your kids will be woefully unprepared for life if you make them think that they can never fail or fall on hard times. If you rescue them every time they meet a hardship, they will never learn to care for themselves. Are you planning on never dying since you say you will take care of them forever. Hope you don't lose your coverage.

Realist's children will NEVER need health care. Mommy and Daddy will be around forever to pay for it, even if they get some tragic chronic disease and no health insurance company wants to cover them with their "chronic condition".

Stacy, your as thick as Janna. When everyone does get old and sick THEY DO get government health care. Another slacker wanting to live in the Obama "etopia". Why not "suck it up" and make something of yourself?? You have the same opportunity I did.

Thats right Stacy, my kids will depend on "mommy and daddy", as it should be. Yours will depend on the governement and strangers (me). Congratulations, what lessons you are all teaching your kids.

Resident,

I didn't say old _and_ sick, I said old _or_ sick!

Another GOP tool who thinks that liberals are losers with no ambition. Have you tried to look for a job right now? If you haven't you have no room to speak of something you know nothing of. Where's all that piss down economics that's supposed to save the economy that your overlords keep saying is the end all be all. Just give the wealthy a tax cut and all will be great. How's that working for our country? As long as you're great, screw everyone else right?

How do you know we had the same opportunities? Are you one of those "American Dream" people?

Everyone will be Daddy Warbucks just like Realist!

50% tax bracket. Kids who are special. Never will fall on hard times. Will always have an advantage over kids of people like you.

Wow!!!! What did Realist do in life that makes him/her a member of the nobility? Hey, this is America, not feudal Europe!!!!!!

Money, money, money makes the world go round.

Realist,

You plan on spending the rest of your life taking care of your kids? What's wrong with them that they can't take care of themselves and how is it more noble to rely on mommy and daddy for everything? You will be the grand enabler to your children. You must not think they'll be able to take care of themselves.

I suppose that Resident forgot why we have Medicare in the first place. Because that free market health insurance industry worked SOOO WELL to provide great service at low cost!

Stacey,

Sorry you've been dragged in welfare world with me. I think these people are actually foaming at the mouth with every vote for HCR.

Janna, I will never understand the losers of the world and how you got this way. I have one kid just out of an Ivy league working for a hedge fund and yes, he has his own insurace. Another one in Santa Barbara majoring in ecomomy and surfing everyday. I am so proud of them. They will never rely on a governemnt handout or crumbs of others. Unfortunatly they will have to take care of your kids too...but it is what it is and life is to short to worry about the numb folks who need a nanny state.

I am SAD to say I'm a democrate!!! Jerry what the hell are you thinking!!! I am so disappointed you will be history come election time. You have sunk America to it's all time low. The government cant manage social security, or medicare. What are you crazy people thinking!!! How can anyone be happy. You will all get what you deserve.

Realist writes:

"Thats right Stacy, my kids will depend on "mommy and daddy", as it should be. Yours will depend on the governement and strangers (me). Congratulations, what lessons you are all teaching your kids."

This superior being, who lives in our mists, has knowledge over us and knows our lives' circumstances and can rule upon us. Because this being has great feelings of superiority derived from some kind of wealth possessed by this superior being (50% tax bracket).

Or....is Realist a poster child of what's wrong with Americans....

Medicare is broke, so is social security. I'll bet your counting on both of these Social programs as well, like all of you who took sub prime home loans and are in debt to your friggen eyeballs. Not me...too smart for that. 15% unemployement, Numi closing, taxs going up, utilites out of control...don't you love what you liberals have done to this state, I hope you guys survive it. I will.

Oh crap...your communist hero is on the air telling more lies and encouraging all of you to sign up for his slacker brigade. What's next, he already owns the car companies and the banks, now the insurance industry. Next he will be nationalizing utilites and the air waves. I actually had high hopes for him. But like all liberals he turned out to be and activist and liar.

Hey God Bless Bill. If you are what's right for America then we are in worse shape than we thought. Dude, leeches like you are whats wrong with this country. Why not take a tin cup to0 Safeway. It's no different than being on the governement dole. Sad, sad, sad, what kind of life do you all live...what's worse what will your children be??

Hey you 15% unemployeed in California, or you 28% under employeed. How's that hope and change working for you??

The system we have is becoming more and more the "Don't get sick, don't get old" system.

Realist, you sound like you'd love to see the class system revived. The poor and rich and nothing in between.

Who cares how rich you are? You're naive to think that your money will cover you and your family forever. Insurance companies don't have to provide you insurance no matter how rich you are.

And I bet you didn't get rich by paying high premiums!

Congressman McNerney, thank you for your vote. You have justified my support and I will do my best to see you are re-elected.

Though the health care bill is not perfect, I believe it corrects serious abuses such as the cancellation of services to policyholders who get sick and denial of coverage based on pre-existing conditions. I believe it will provide more security when people are between jobs are starting their own businesses, that it will reduce the number of health care related bankruptcies, that it will enable more companies to offer insurance, and that it will greatly reduce the number of uninsured. There is reason to hope it will stabilize rising premiums by interrupting the "death cycle" caused by the exit from insurance plans of healthy individuals who cannot afford premiums. I believe the bill is a solid foundation for improvements in the future and continues the great tradition of Social Security and Medicare.

My congratulations also to Speakers Reid and Pelosi, who proved themselves masters at the art of legislative compromise and consensus building, and to the Democrats who voted in favor despite the possibility that it might cost them their jobs. My congratulations, especially, to the President, who has earned my vote many times over this past year. Thank you.

Not at all Stacy. I love the hard working middle class. The are the true example of what America is, the foundation of our nation. It the lazy, unmotivated, looking for a governement hand out that I have a problem with, unfortunatly, we have more than our share in NorCal. I am also for helping those in poverty get out of it, proiding their children and education and health care. But encouraging apathy among the American masses is pathetic and wrong, that is exatly what liberals like you have always done. It sounds like you would like a society without the rich. Funny, I have never known a poor person who created one job.

I am all for 100% coverage for kids and elderly. But not for the lazy and able. Know anyone that fits this bill? Check out the mirror.

Provoked three rants from the Pheasant Ridge neighborhood. Filled with accusations of critics with name-calling as members of his "slacker brigade", "you liberals", "leeches like you", "what kind of life do you live", and in a conclusion designed to be most insulting asks "what's worse what will your children be??"

Writer has trouble spelling certain words like "unemployement",
"governement", "utilites", etc.

God bless Realist.

Stacy. I never said that the insurance systme doesn't need reform. If this was such a great bill, why did they have to twist so many arms and cut so many swarthy backroom deals. If it was so great, you libs could have passed it a year ago. You take your dose of governement medicine at the wealth creators expense, we don't expect your appreciation. When I write my check to the IRS I will be happy you are secure and I payed for it, I am sure that you are one of the 50% in America who pay no taxes at all, but suck up all the benefits. My family will have the higest quality health care no matter what the price. And I will not apoligize to the food stamp crowds like you and your liberal buddies on this blog.

Realist,

Everyone gets old. Everyone is at risk of getting sick from something beyond their control. Everyone includes the working class, the middle class, the kids, the elderly, the lazy, the able, the unable, the rich, the poor, even you and I.

"I am sure that you are one of the 50% in America who pay no taxes at all, but suck up all the benefits."

HAHA, no that'll be the politicians you're referring to!

Realist, you are so consumed with your condescending name-calling of people who oppose your opinion that you don't realize you come across as a worse case example of a self-declared, proud nobility class of American. Keep writing. You are your own worst enemy.

Are you now accusing Stacey of getting food stamps. How low can you go? I'm not on food stamps either FYI. Your version of 'reality' is really getting stomped tonight.

All the politics aside I wonder how all of this will be paid for. Two wars, bank bailouts, stimulus package, tarp, buying GM and Chrysler, and now healthcare. We are already effectively bankrupct and no Moody is threatening to reduce our credit rating. Pretty scary if you as me.

"Two wars, bank bailouts, stimulus package, tarp," All Republican-Bush-Cheney-Rove creations, now inherited by Obama to fix by Obama. Milton Friedmann is rolling in his grave while Alan Greenspan continues to be frozen in shocked disbelief. So, Obama and the Democrats are supposed to not fix the real problems in America (health care and jobs) because Bush and his cronies stuck us in this hole? Tell us how this should work! Give us your view of how to address what really affects America and Americans.

Realist keeps saying he's in the mythical "50%" tax bracket. You have a son that works for a hedge fund (like they've never had a government bailout...hypocrites) and another that surfs (I'd be proud too) and you'd think these smart sons of yours would help you lower your tax bracket. Even Warren Buffet only pays a taxable rate of about 17%. If you're paying 50% in taxes then either you've got a really bad accountant, or you're a bald face liar, or you're a complete moron...or all three...

No surprise. Surely you all KNEW Jerry had every intention of voting yes..such dishonest drama. Hoyer, Pelosi, et al stand up repeating the few items loved by all i.e. college kids, no pre-exist, etc. However, I NEVER heard them REMIND you all about the NEW 3.8% TAX on unearned income like interest on savings, dividends, annuities. rentals, royalities, etc. We'll have to watch closely that Obama doesn't slip in and wave interest tax for special interest union sweet deal investments..like he waived THEIR Cadillac plan tax. AND, we'll have to see IF they took out Nebraska HUCKSTER, La secret deals, etc, etc....first I've ever heard 'oh just VOTE for it we'll take out & fix and put in & fix AFTER it's passed ! I'm sure the founders groaned when they heard that one. And what about the budget busting hiring of 17,000 new IRS agents to police checking our interest and dividend reporting of taxes....really BIG brother is watching...gotta have those new taxes to prop up and keep together for a few years until after reelection then the poo poo hits the big turbine ! But no need to stand at the mike and tell everybody about that TONIGHT ???!?! That can wait.

OK, the vote has passed, the hyperventilating can go away.

Now, how does this legislation lower health care costs for everyone?

Janna -

Let's clear something up.

You say you are not on "welfare". Great! But why not? Don't you need to be able to justify why you are not working? In your case you do not work. Your husband does not work. But you could. You just don't want any of the jobs that are available. So they turned you down for "welfare".

Of course there are many welfare programs.

But you are on unemployment, right? And the ARRA is paying 2/3 of your power bill. And the ARRA would have paid for 2/3 of your health insurance prmeium as well, right? So do you have insurance now? If the policy cost was $1K you would have to pay only $333. So do you have it?

You shout out that YOU dont use food stamps. Why not? Did they give you a Food Stamp debit card? Or would you be too embarrassed to use them in front of your neighbors? How is the health insurance dole for able bodied working age people any different?

Thank you Jerry!. A tough vote, but the right one to make. You have my support in November. Keep it going! There is still more Change to come.

Janna - some folks don't understand that we pay into the unemployment INSURANCE system and are entitled to benefits that help us provide basic necessities for our families. This is very different from general assistance programs ("welfare" as some choose to call it) which are also important and cover many people who later contribute via taxes when they are well fed and back on their feet.

Just a suggestion - let the "holier than thou" types who are so incredibly accusatory on this thread go. Don't bother defending - you are taking care of your family which is what is best for the entire community. Those that judge negatively clearly have a character flaw and aren't worth your energy.

It's people like you Questionable that make me not want to take public help. I still have some credit to fall back on and have chosen to go that route until I can't any longer.

Thanks Sharon. I love how people question others when they've never been in their situation.