Did you read the 500 pages line for line and use Word to document this?

Your wording is vague and does NOT represent the actual text within the bill, but rather YOU put your own SPIN on what is actually in the bill in many, but not all cases here.

Darlene,

Is sure isn't YOU reading these 500 pages! YOU nedd to Quote the source by Law!

I Googled YOUR text and came up with this:

Health Care Bill Explained - Financial Sense Newshour - July 25, 2009Pg 22 of the HC Bill. MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!! Pg 30 Sec 123. THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get. Pg 29 lines 4-16. YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!! Pg 42. The Health Choices Commissioner will choose UR HC Benefits for you. ...
www.financialsense.com/fsn/presentations/2009/0724.html - Cached - Similar -
The HC Monstrosity - All 1018 Pages (The Monstrous Details)Jul 26, 2009 ... Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the govt. will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!! Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get. Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR ... Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time ...
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2301466/posts - 8 hours ago - Similar -
Highlights from the OBAMACARE: tell your statemen what you think ...Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!! Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides ... PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private .... PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will ...
www.sodahead.com/.../highlights-from-the-obamacare-tell-your-statemen-what-you-think-about-it/ - Cached - Similar -
Forum ListingJul 23, 2009 ... Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!! Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits u get. Pg 29 lines 4-16 ... Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay 4 HC 4 part time employees AND their families. ...
www.silive.com/forums/news/index.ssf?artid=413219 - Cached - Similar -
H.R. 3200 OBAMA'S SOCIALIST NATIONAL HEALTH CARE - IT'S WORSE THAN ...Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!! Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what ... PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic approp svcs. ... PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment u will have ...
www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=25914184795...ref... - Cached - Similar -
The Actual 1017 page Health Care BillJul 25, 2009 ... Pg 21-22: SEC. 113. INSURANCE RATING RULES of the HC Bill MANDATES the Government will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!! Pg 29: SEC. ... Pg 30: SEC. 123. HEALTH BENEFITS ADVISORY COMMITTEE of HC bill – THERE WILL BE A GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get. ...
columbus.craigslist.org/pol/1288880027.html - Similar -
1018 PAGE HEALTHCARE BILL TO DIE FOR - James Quinn -- Seeking AlphaJul 24, 2009 ... Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!! Pg 30 Sec 123. THERE WILL BE A GOVT ... Pg 146 Lines 22-25. Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families. ... The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life ...
seekingalpha.com/.../18724-1-018-page-healthcare-bill-to-die-for - Cached - Similar -
RepliesJul 23, 2009 ... Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Government will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!! Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get ... Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families. ...
209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2299472/replies?c=2 - Cached - Similar -
Shock: Inside the Healthcare Bill : Health Freedom AlliancePg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!! Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what ... PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic approp svcs. ... pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what u ...
blogs.healthfreedomalliance.org/.../shock-inside-the-healthcare-bill/ - Cached - Similar -
Kingdom Studies: Scrutinizing Health Care BillPg 22 of the Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!! Pg 30 Sec 123 of bill – THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what ... Can you say HC by phone? PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care ... PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will ...
kingdomstudies.blogspot.com/.../scrutinizing-health-care-bill.html - Cached - Similar -

Ah I see, MORE Right Wing Propaganda!

The following link is to the actual Healthcare Bill... HR 3200.

My guess is that there will be a few who respond to this posting as Right Wing propaganda, despite that it is the actual bill. Most hardcore Democrats act on emotion vs. facts.

Web Link

For Starters, this disputes your report:


SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term `grandfathered health insurance coverage' means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:

(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-

(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.

(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED- Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.

(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.

(3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.

(b) Grace Period for Current Employment-based Health Plans-

(1) GRACE PERIOD-

(A) IN GENERAL- The Commissioner shall establish a grace period whereby, for plan years beginning after the end of the 5-year period beginning with Y1, an employment-based health plan in operation as of the day before the first day of Y1 must meet the same requirements as apply to a qualified health benefits plan under section 101, including the essential benefit package requirement under section 121.

(B) EXCEPTION FOR LIMITED BENEFITS PLANS- Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to an employment-based health plan in which the coverage consists only of one or more of the following:

(i) Any coverage described in section 3001(a)(1)(B)(ii)(IV) of division B of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (Public Law 111-5).

(ii) Excepted benefits (as defined in section 733(c) of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974), including coverage under a specified disease or illness policy described in paragraph (3)(A) of such section.

(iii) Such other limited benefits as the Commissioner may specify.

In no case shall an employment-based health plan in which the coverage consists only of one or more of the coverage or benefits described in clauses (i) through (iii) be treated as acceptable coverage under this division

(2) TRANSITIONAL TREATMENT AS ACCEPTABLE COVERAGE- During the grace period specified in paragraph (1)(A), an employment-based health plan that is described in such paragraph shall be treated as acceptable coverage under this division.

(c) Limitation on Individual Health Insurance Coverage-

(1) IN GENERAL- Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.

(2) SEPARATE, EXCEPTED COVERAGE PERMITTED- Excepted benefits (as defined in section 2791(c) of the Public Health Service Act) are not included within the definition of health insurance coverage. Nothing in paragraph (1) shall prevent the offering, other than through the Health Insurance Exchange, of excepted benefits so long as it is offered and priced separately from health insurance coverage.

My husband as read the bill and it is a disaster.

We need to cross reference these:

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides apprvd list of end of life resources, guiding you in death




PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends




Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates




PG 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV




Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

George, I am not clear what you mean by "you need to cross-reference these...'

You can read those pages and lines yourself in the actual bill.

Yes, right there on p. 429...BigBrother Obama Admin can order the end of your life.

Here is the link again to the bill.

Web Link

(Who is now calling this RightWing propaganda now?)

As a Bar Certified and CA State Licensed Attorney, I can not give legal advice over the internet. I can say that upon reading the first 100 pages of the bill, I see major inconsistencies regarding legal interpretation of the bill text and what has been posted as interpreted in a non legal manner, with the author adding personal interpretation, as well as their personal opinion and perspective as to the actual meaning of the text.

In my personal opinion, what has been posted as a factual summary of the text within the Bill, is actually a non legal interpretation of the written text of the bill, thus an opinion based upon an interpretation that would not be considered to be an actual or factual representation of the text in a Court of Law. There appears to be a personal bias by the author of the quoted text in the post and their appears to be an individualized and specific agenda and or motive to sway the intended audience towards specific personal and politically motivated and oriented opinion and or the views and beliefs of the author, not based upon fact.

Note: I have no personal or professional opinion in regard to the Bill or the text of the bill.

On to the next 100 pages.

Darlene, Excellent posts. We need to shed light on this garbage heep of a bill.

BHO pushes this junk. We, the people need to push back, hard!

"Yes, right there on p. 429...BigBrother Obama Admin can order the end of your life"

Darlen- "Big Brother" has been quite capable of ordering "end of life" for thousands upon thousand for hundreds of years!

Darlen,

A usable LINK to the BILL would be a GREAT help!

Web Link

pete, defense of this nation and honor in service of same is not something to be taken lightly. Many have made the ultimate sacrifice in order to protect your freedom of speech.

Thank you Benjamin for providing context to what was taken out of context by the starter of this thread. This is a prime example of why vigilant and responsible citizens have to take it upon themselves to do their own research.

I have to wonder if Darlene read the entire bill herself before weeping. (I haven't.)

Will someone please explain why my hard-earned tax dollars should be used for health care for people in this country illegally?

And a follow-up: Don't you think that doing so will create the most intense magnate of illegal migration the world has ever witnessed?

Since when must anyone read an entire bill before commenting on it? Do you think your elected officials do this? Remember the stimulus bill that was rammed through congress, with virtually no representative from either side of the aisle or house of congress having read it?
Why the attack on Darlene? She's expressing her first amendment right of free speech.

It now should be much clearer, as evidence by this Obamacare Plan which is a WAR agaist SENIORS and others, that an earlier posting somewhere on this PW board is very true...

Democrats are against ALL THREE INALIENABLE RIGHTS - LIFE, LIBERTY, and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS specified in our Declaration of Independence...

LIFE: (Dems are pro-abortion and euthanasia...esp. end of life orders in the healthcare bill)

LIBERTY: (Dems are for reduction of our national defense, are for more and more govt controls over all of our lives, threaten free speech and second amendment, etc.)

PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS: (Dems are continually reducing private property rights, are anti-capitalism, against individualism and the pursuit of the American Dream)

Ruth, I would make one correction: You're talking about hard leftists, like our POTUS, BHO. Hard leftists have taken over the Democratic Party. I left the party years ago. I'm now an Independant, the fastest growing "non-party".

In the first post, posted by Darlen, (a summary of the meaning of the bill per page and line item)of which is posted on THOUSANDS of Web sites, here is an example of just how of context the author is:

"PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides apprvd list of end of life resources, guiding you in death"

In the actual bill on page 425, the text refered to above is only on lines 19-23, NOT lines 22-25 and the actual text states:

19 ‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the
20 continuum of end-of-life services and supports avail
21 able, including palliative care and hospice, and bene
22 fits for such services and supports that are available
23 under this title.

This is in connection with ammending the already existing Social Security Act Text to better protect the patient! The patients providing doctor is responsible for the patient having the resources available to make educated CHOICES! This is ALREADY an ethical responsabilty of any providing primary care doctor, caring for ailing or elderly. The text in the Bill IN NO WAY states that "the government is "providing the patient a list of resources to GUIDE THEM INTO DEATH!

STRIKE ONE against Propaganda!

Next:

I want to expand upon the following paragraphs on page 426 of the Bill, as these lines add much needed clarity as to the contect of lines 19-23:

Keep in mind that this is all within the current Social Security Act, and is clarifying standard heath care procedures. These are refering to advanced care directives and are the PATIENTS wishes!

Page 4261 ‘‘(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of
2 orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar
3 orders, which shall include—
4 ‘‘(I) the reasons why the development of
5 such an order is beneficial to the individual and
6 the individual’s family and the reasons why
7 such an order should be updated periodically as
8 the health of the individual changes;
9 ‘‘(II) the information needed for an indi10
vidual or legal surrogate to make informed deci11
sions regarding the completion of such an
12 order; and
13 ‘‘(III) the identification of resources that
14 an individual may use to determine the require15
ments of the State in which such individual re16
sides so that the treatment wishes of that indi17
vidual will be carried out if the individual is un18
able to communicate those wishes, including re19
quirements regarding the designation of a sur20
rogate decisionmaker (also known as a health
21 care proxy).

There is NO GOVERNMENT deciding anyones end of life decisions and or care!

Dear Law:
Oh...ok...your logic is that "the Govt will not order end of life but will just withhold necessary life sustaining treatment." I see.

READ THE BILL FOR YOURSELF! On p. 429 it specifically indicates that the Fed can RENDER ORDERS REGARDING LIFE SUSTAINING TREATMENT (meaning ordering the withdrawal of!)

Law, no story here -- time to move on and do exactly what POTUS wants, right now. I would laugh if this wasn't so serious an issue.

Is our health care system in need of tweaking? Yes. Do we need to rush full steam ahead as the POTUS is demanding and implement this sorry excuse for reform? No.

Go to The Netherlands and any other nationally order health coverage states and see how government mandated health care really works. At a cetain age, people get only hospice care. The state dictates end of life decisions, unless one flees The System and seeks treatment elswhere, like the U.S. (unless ObamaCare takes over).

Where is John Galt?

I am a Law Student and NOT a practicing Attorney. We have been reviewing the bill in detail in one of my Law Classes. I have personally, along with other Law students evaluated the exact text that Darlene posted, as it has been posted on well over 1000 web sites across the County and cross referenced this line item to the Bill. It is VERY clear that the Bill is taken way out of actual context as Benjamin pointed out.

I feel it is an injustice to the citizens of The United States Of America to post this type of data all over the internet, as if it is actually has merit and is of valid legal sustenance in content as related to the content contained within the Bill.

Note that I personally consider myself a hard line conservative, however I have a sense of duty and responsability to practice ethical and fair legal interpretation of media.

Friend,

You have valid points well taken, and I for one whole heartedly agree that we should NOT rush into this Reform.

I Just can NOT stand Non Factual propaganda!

Reposted, without errors and an addendum or two:
Law, no story here -- time to move on and do exactly what POTUS wants, right now. I would laugh if this wasn't so serious an issue.
Is our health care system in need of tweaks and revisions? Yes. Do we need to rush full steam ahead as the POTUS is demanding and implement this sorry excuse for reform? No.
Go to The Netherlands or any other nationally ordered health coverage state and see how government mandated health care really works. At a certain age, people get only hospice care. The state dictates end of life decisions, unless one flees The System and seeks treatment elsewhere, like the U.S. (unless ObamaCare takes over). China and India are doing a booming business in off shore replacement surgeries.



Where is John Galt?

Darlene,

"Dear Law:

Oh...ok...your logic is that "the Govt will not order end of life but will just withhold necessary life sustaining treatment." I see."

Let's SLOW down here! With all due respect, I am giving input on one page and 5 lines of text within the Bill on page 426.

There are no lines as your post suggests, lines 24 and 25, so I can’t comment on toes lines, other than they DO NOT EXIST!

Again, with all due respect, I suggest you leave the posting of content that the Bill actually contains, as well as the legal interpretation of the context to those qualified to do so accurately.

It doesn't do anyone any good to post inaccurate information as it were accurate.

If you don't want the government taking over your healthcare.. just vote NO. You don't have to read anything....

Federal tax supported healthcare is Socialism. Resist this!

We've got the greatest healthcare system in the world.. Don't destroy it!

unclehomerr..

Unclehomerr wrote: "We've got the greatest healthcare system in the world.. Don't destroy it!"

I would beg to differ. We surely aren't seeing a mad scramble for an oh-so-great US style health care system in other countries.

Enough Already,
I'm just seeing irony in conservatives on this board criticizing Democrats (McNerney) for not reading the stimulus bill (hey, which Republicans read it?) yet if Darlene read and understood the health care bill she wouldn't have taken quotes out of context. Or maybe she did read and understand it and is taking quotes out of context on purpose!

As for magnets for illegal immigrants, I think our freedoms and economic opportunities (well, not during this recession) are a stronger magnet for illegal immigrants than them coming here to give birth to US citizens.

Dear Unclehomerr:
I am glad you believe that nationalized healthcare is a huge step toward socialism and would be terrible for our country.

However I am perplexed with your statement that we should "just vote NO". I hope you realize that 'We The People..." do not specifically vote. Unfortunately we are at the mercy of our (Democrat-led) Congress who will be the one's voting.

Here in Pleasanton, we have a far left representative, Jerry McNerney...who is in favor of Obamacare...and who also voted in favor of the jobs killing Cap and Trade Bill, our wonderful Stimulus Package that has produced such a return-on-investment (NOT), and other bills that have weakened our country substantially.

God help us. With a Congress and President who are so openly opposed to everything that has made this country great, our children and our children's children will grow up in a country much different from the one I once knew.

In the first post, posted by Darlen, (a summary of the meaning of the Bill HR3200 per page and line item) of which is posted on THOUSANDS of Web sites, here is ANOTHER example of just how of context the author is:

QUOTED from the original Post:

"PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends"

AGAIN relating to amendments to the Social Security Act, as it related to Medicare and Advanced care Directives:

The Bill continues to outline guidelines for advanced care directives on page 427 lines 11-24 and page 428 lines 1-5. One can NOT summarize the meaning of the text within the bill as it relates to the stated interpretation, “ Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends" in just reading page 427 lines 15-24.
Lines 15-24 on page 427 of the Bill HR3200 DO NOT state that “Government mandates programs for end of life” and or “The Government has a say in how your life ends” but rather the text is part of the inclusive text on page 427 lines 11-24 and Page 428 1-5 that clarify a stream lined method for f heath care providers, ensuring that a patients directives are carried out without legal delay or unnecessary complications within any jurisdiction.

So, the author has completely taken the text of the bill out of context again and made statements based not upon fact, but rather uneducated interpretation and perhaps biased emotion for personal motive or gain.

KEEP IN MIND that this Bill would not go into effect until 2013 and it would take until 2017 to be fully in place, so perhaps people are
going a tad overboard?


Page 427
HR 3200 IH

11 ‘‘(I) ensures such orders are standardized
12 and uniquely identifiable throughout the State;
13 ‘‘(II) distributes or makes accessible such
14 orders to physicians and other health profess
15 sionals that (acting within the scope of the pro
16 fessional’s authority under State law) may sign
17 orders for life sustaining treatment;
18 ‘‘(III) provides training for health care
19 professionals across the continuum of care
20 about the goals and use of orders for life sus
21 taining treatment; and
22 ‘‘(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake
23 holders includes representatives from emergency
24 medical services, emergency department physic
25 cians or nurses, state long-term care associa-

PAGE 428
HR 3200 IH
1 tion, state medical association, state surveyors,
2 agency responsible for senior services, state de
3 partment of health, state hospital association,
4 home health association, state bar association,
5 and state hospice association


Last one tomorrow!~

Darlene posted the following text and this is my FINAL summary of some of the GRAVE errors in or literal or legal interpretation of the Bill HR3200 by the author.

Take note that I am NOT vested in this bill, nor do I have a personal
opinion of the bill for the purpose of this summary.

I do however have a vested interest in truth and factual reporting of importany issues.

Again this is part of proposed amendments to the Social Security Code as it relates to Medicare and advanced care directives.
Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates
This is a gross misinterpretation of line 1-9, so much that I have NO comment.
PG 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV
Again, the Author has so grossly misinterpreted lines 10-12 and taken the text so far out of its context to suit their agenda, it’s appalling. There is no literal or legal merit in which one could even closely associate the meaning within these lines in the bill, to what the author has written what so ever. There is NO “end of life order from the Gov” what so ever!
Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.
Same as the above summary. In fact these lines are within the text and context as it relates to:
429
HR 3200 IH
1 ‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may in
clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining
treatment or a similar order.
Take NOTICE of the words “life sustaining” in particular!

The author is deemed to be poorly equipped to interpret
written text at best and their entire summary is thus
fictional at best.

428
HR3200
. 6 ‘‘(2) A practitioner described in this paragraph is—
7 ‘‘(A) a physician (as defined in subsection
8 (r)(1)); and
9 ‘‘(B) a nurse practitioner or physician’s assist10
ant who has the authority under State law to sign
11 orders for life sustaining treatments.
12 ‘‘(3)(A) An initial preventive physical examination
13 under subsection (WW), including any related discussion
14 during such examination, shall not be considered an ad15
vance care planning consultation for purposes of applying
16 the 5-year limitation under paragraph (1).
17 ‘‘(B) An advance care planning consultation with re18
spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently
19 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant
20 change in the health condition of the individual, including
21 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a
22 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening
23 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a
24 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or
25 a hospice program.
VerDate Nov 24 2008 00:08 Jul 15, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00428 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
429
HR 3200 IH
1 ‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may in
clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining
3 treatment or a similar order.
4 ‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order
5 regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect
6 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to
7 the treatment of that individual that—
8 ‘‘(i) is signed and dated by a physician (as de9
fined in subsection (r)(1)) or another health care
10 professional (as specified by the Secretary and who
11 is acting within the scope of the professional’s au
12 thority under State law in signing such an order, in
13 cluding a nurse practitioner or physician assistant)
14 and is in a form that permits it to stay with the in15
dividual and be followed by health care professionals
16 and providers across the continuum of care;
17 ‘‘(ii) effectively communicates the individual’s
18 preferences regarding life sustaining treatment, in19
cluding an indication of the treatment and care de20
sired by the individual;
21 ‘‘(iii) is uniquely identifiable and standardized
22 within a given locality, region, or State (as identified
23 by the Secretary); and
VerDate Nov 24 2008 00:08 Jul 15, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00429 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
430
HR 3200 IH
1 ‘‘(iv) may incorporate any advance directive (as
2 defined in section 1866(f)(3)) if executed by the in3
dividual.
4 ‘‘(B) The level of treatment indicated under subpara5
graph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treat6
ment to an indication to limit some or all or specified
7 interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may in8
clude indications respecting, among other items—
9 ‘‘(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the
10 patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac
11 or pulmonary problems;
12 ‘‘(ii) the individual’s desire regarding transfer
13 to a hospital or remaining at the current care set14
ting;
15 ‘‘(iii) the use of antibiotics; and
16 ‘‘(iv) the use of artificially administered nutri17
tion and hydration.’’.

"17 ‘‘(ii) effectively communicates the individual’s


18 preferences regarding life sustaining treatment, in19
"

Law, great posts! The above about says it all in my opinion!

This part of the bill clarifies and details "The Individuals Preferences Regarding Life Sustaining Treatment" and ensures their wishes are followed and honored.

The author of that post, that I saw all over the internet is
a lousy scholar and has LOST all credibility and so has Darlene!

Shame on you Darlene!

I have just about it with my own conservative Republican base, as have quite a few of our closest friends as of late.

What we once had, we have no longer! The base has swung SO far to the Right that it's an embarrassement to humanity!

That's it, from now on call me a Moderate, or a conservative Democrat for that matter!

Wow, Law and Student, kuddos to you gentlemen, or ladies? Nice work!

"Some of the items in the Health Care Plan now in the works: (Yes, someone IS reading the immense amount of pages!!! But it isn't your representatives in Washington D.C. !)"

Darlene, In the Legal Field, or any decent Law maker can read and comprehend at least a hundred pages of legal jargon in less than an hour. Don’t be fooled into thinking that Congress is not reading this bill and taking it very seriously.

Sorry, very long day and tired! Forgot to mention..

Whoever wrote that garbage that has been posted all over the internet, thinking it would resemble something of validity or merit, pertaining to Senate Bill HR 3200, did a very, very, very poor job!

Anyone who can read, who cross referenced even ONE of their statements, would be appalled!


I am a conservative, I work in the Legal field and I am appalled! Very appalled!

Darlene!
Was that you that typed this?

"Posted by Darlene, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, 4 hours ago

The following link is to the actual Healthcare Bill... HR 3200.


My guess is that there will be a few who respond to this posting as Right Wing propaganda, despite that it is the actual bill. Most hardcore Democrats act on emotion vs. facts. "

You must be REALLY embarrassed,because in fact YOU posted the link to the "actual Bill" and as pointed out and I researched it my self,
what you posted was NOT even close to "the actual bill" your words!

Then, you went on further to belittle Democrats by saying "Most hardcore Democrats act on emotion vs. facts."

So, who hastily copied propoganda from the internet and posted it here, when in FACT it is not accurate at all and you dare to say "Democrats act on emotion"?

"Posted by Darlene, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, 4 hours ago

George, I am not clear what you mean by "you need to cross-reference these...'

You can read those pages and lines yourself in the actual bill.

Yes, right there on p. 429...BigBrother Obama Admin can order the end of your life.

Here is the link again to the bill.

Web Link

(Who is now calling this RightWing propaganda now?)'

WoW and double wow Darlene! You though people were stupid enough not to do their homework and you posted a link to a Bill which you did not read or understand?

"Who is now calling this RightWing propaganda now"

That whole list was made up over time by a guy by the name of:

Peter Fleckstein (aka Felckman)

It is comprised of individual "Twitter-Tweets" and consolodated on a lits.

Brilliant! This guy who can't comprehend what he reads, takes a proposed heath Care Bill, enterprets it and makes it his worldly mission to "spread the truth" and in doing so, actually spreads lies!

This list ends up being posted on thousands of Conservative web sites across the nation, as factual material!

Another MAJOR blow to any crediblity for these folks!

Bad! Really Bad! Even Mark Levine relies on this "Fleckmans" health Care Bill summary list!!!!



James sent this in: "Mark Levin read the lines below from the Healthcare bill on his radio show (770 AM NY 6 - 9 PM) tonight. It gives all the secret snares that exist in the bill and most likely have not been read by you or any Congress person OR by the President himself, as he admitted in public today.

Seniors are especially affected by this bill, and so I am begging all you seniors and children of senior parents and those who will be seniors in the near future to take time to read this list below. It is written in Twitter language but I think all can "get" the gist."

Following the mad recommendations of Peter Singer made in NYT's Sunday magazine, it pays to take a look at what is actually in the healthcare bill.

It's worse than you can possibly imagine. Somehow, it manages to be Singer on steroids. Who wrote this bill. It has Singer's footprints all over it.

Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on Twitter his findings. This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benes u get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

....

.......

If I provided a link to a different version of HR 3200 than the latest one, I apologize and there was no deliberate intention to mislead. I want to find the truth as much as this bill impacts all of us...for generations.

I would also like to know what the substantive differences between the latest version and the link which was provided to me that I forwarded. My guess is that there are few substantive differences...but we will see. In the end, I firmly believe that we will find this Bill still stinks to high heaven.

At least this process has made several of us more informed as we all are searching for the truth. Again, there was no deliberate intention to provide inaccurate info. Let's all do our own independent research and report back.

Ok...as an update, I believe I DID provide you the most accurate link to HR 3200.


You can download it again from this website. Tell me where I am wrong!

Web Link

Darlene,

You are wrong in not reading or understanding the replies to your topic. You are wrong in believing that "Fleckmans" summary, that has been posted on over 3000 web sites, as quoted by Mark Levin, is anywhere near a literal interpretation of the text in the Bill. You are wrong in believing that Congress is not reading the bill in full and taking the bill very seriously. You are wrong in believing that what you posted will not be cross referenced by anyone with any education and that means most Pleasanton residents. You are wrong in believing that this summary written by "Fleckman" and endorsed By Levin will have a sway in a justified manner in regard to the Bill.

I am NOT giving you MY PERSONAL input either way of heath care reform, or the Bill, but rather hopefully providing accurate information for other to go on. If I were you and I am not, I would go as far as apologizing for the post as it does a disservice to the American Public.

I have now read the bill and it is a disaster.

Public Notice:

"Stacey, it sounds as if your mind is already made up. However, in the event that you'd consider hearing more info about the proposed Obamacare Plan, especially what it means for Seniors, I am offering you the following audioclip."

"It is an interview with Betsy McCaughey, PhD, patient advocate and former Lieutenant Governor of NY, now Adjunct Fellow at the Hudson Institute in Wash. DC. (Yes, I can already anticipate your response...that the interviewer is conservative Mark Levin. Just focus on McCaughey's comments if you have a problem with Levin.)"
Ruth,

You need to go LOOK at the OTHER TOPIC here on the forum, where Mark Levin’s point man on the Bill, (Fleckman ) has been EXPOSED and this guy has ZERO ability to read, comprehend and be any type of EXPERT on what is actually written in the Bill.
His personal OPINION, in the line item summary that has been posted on over 1000 web sites is a really poor translation of the literal and or legal meaning and or context within the Bill. He did a really sloppy job, even in his page number and line item references as well. Just WAY off track and borderline Propaganda!

What he states is the meaning of the line item text, is not even close to the actual or legal meaning of the text!

There is no Gov mandated euthanasia or death counseling in which the Gov chooses when and how you die either! None what so ever! You people are taking this WAY too far and making your case REALLY weak and fanatical, to say the very least.

Note:

I consider myself to be a conservative and I am a Republican, but I won’t stand for outright Propaganda in the media on this matter.

Correction:




This commentary of Fleckmans has been posted verbatim on over 3200 web sites across the nation.




What a disgrace to any senior who reads this and thinks that Fleckman is a scholar, a lawyer or and expert on the subject






“Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on Twitter his findings. This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)”




Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!




Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benes u get




Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!






Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner re…………




………

Ok (Pompous) LawStudent:
Come up with your own summary of HR 3200 and post it for all to read. In all summaries, there will be room for misinterpretation and debate. I see John Conyers has indicated that no one should "expect" Congress to read the 1000+ page bill before signing it ... because it will require a couple attorneys to interpret it for them.

O.K. Darlene you win! Accept the responsibility for what you posted, as this would be consistent with your value system I would think?

I am not LawStudent, but since he/she wen't way out of their way to shed some truth here, I though that I would stick up for them here.

Darlene, cool down woman! Go meditate, pray or go shopping! You are driving yourself nutss it seem.

You posted Radical Right Wing B.S. and you were caught!

You either personally did not read, or if you did read the ever changing Bill, you clearly did not understand what you read.

If you had taken the time to cross reference even one line of your post, you would have been obligated by you own values I would hope, to have not posted that.

Accept the responsibility for posting and contributing to Right Wing Propaganda on the Pleasanton Towne Square Forum and MOVE ON please!


The rest of you angry conservatives need to chill out, before you all get locked up in a Looney bin at worst, or ruin the chances OUR party ever winning an election again!

Jen,

Just the usual I cannot express myself with informed information so the natural liberal response is to just attack and call people names like, looney bin, right wing propaganda, etc. When you have developed the capability to intelligently express yourself people might listen to you seriously.

Michael,

Agreed, I posted that in a moment of frustration and normally would not communicate in that manner, so thanks for pointing this out.

Both sides of the fence as well as the middle have become so frustrated and the public and on line conversations are almost as radical as the fractions we state were so above, in the middle east.

I don’t know what the answer is, but were heading in the wrong direction as far as how we as citizens are communication our frustrations with the economy, job loss, political change, etc.

Are you kidding me? ...

CNSNews.com
Conyers Sees No Point in Members Reading 1,000-Page Health Care Bill--Unless They Have 2 Lawyers to Interpret It for Them
Monday, July 27, 2009
By Nicholas Ballasy, Video Reporter

(CNSNews.com) - During his speech at a National Press Club luncheon, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Democratic Congressman John Conyers (D-Mich.), questioned the point of lawmakers reading the health care bill.

“I love these members, they get up and say, ‘Read the bill,’” said Conyers.

“What good is reading the bill if it’s a thousand pages and you don’t have two days and two lawyers to find out what it means after you read the bill?”
Source: Web Link

You hard lefties are amazing students of the Saul Alinsky school of Destroy Your Opponent. Brilliant execution (pun intended!). Marx is smiling downstairs.

P-Towner

You are only kidding yourself. The authors of the bill as has bee, as is being revised almost daily ARE LAWYERS!

Do you think that those on the committee have the legal skills to write?
This stuff?

And, IF those on the panel DID in fact WRITE the bill, then how on earth would they NOT know what’s in the Bill?

The White House is not writing the Bill, Congressional LAWYERS are.


These are legal documents written by Lawyers!

LawStudent, perhaps you need to re-read my post. Go ahead, slow down and read each word, c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y.
LawStudent, what’s with the worship-speak about lawyers? You seem breathless – LOL!
There are good lawyers and bad lawyers and a million jokes about lawyers … hmm, I wonder why?
Bad laws are written every day -- get a grip.

Jen,

In all sincerity I have very little concerned whether someone is left or right, demo or repub, or any of that stuff as in many cases I believe the argument for or against detracts from being objective about what is really happening as people get a little hard headed and dig in. What I am concerned about is the direction we are going as a country. All of these wars, the debt we are incurring, out of control this out of control that, loose border control, Iran and North Korea with nuclear weapons, Israel threatening to take care of Iran. These are things which truly concern me and should concern all AMERICANS.

Michael,

Yes I agree Michael. You sound king of sexy, are you married?

here is the actual bill: Web Link
so far I am not seeing what is reported above as accurately portraying what is in the bill.

It doesn’t accurately portray the Bill what so ever! Also, as I stated this is a Bill in progress and being revised DAILY! Read today’s news!

People jumped the gun BIG TIME with all the fear mongering and fatalist “socialist” speak.

Again, READ the latest on the Bill as of today. Note that NOTHING will be done as far as voting on the Bill this month and there is a “public opinion” period!

The Bill if and when voted in and signed is slated to be phased in GRADUALLY starting 2013 through 2017.

Many components of the Bill are WELL over due! I am telling you, people are really working them selves up with all this crazy fatalist talk.

I am observing that there is a faction of society that is going WAY overboard to the point of their being detrimental for our society. More and more each day, these folks are alienating their party’s causes.

Law Student you are right on !
I am aghast at the irresponsible behavior of so-called "News" channel Fox with regards to this debate.
With this and all the race-baiting that has been going on , it is becoming apparent that perhaps they should change their name to KKK News

What worries me most is the fear and confusion being transmitted to senior citizens via media or other recourses, relatives, friends, care givers etc. Some of these seniors may not have full mental or emotional capabilities to gather or process accurate information.

And what’s most telling is that the part of the Bill being touted as “forced end of life consultations” actually spells out a system that ensures that the elderly and or those in a failing state of heath’s, wishes in regard to heath care are spelled out and followed. It also spells out their wishes and closes the gap in confusion in the case of incapacity.

right. Well according to the wingnuts Obama wanted to teach Kindergarten students sex ed. They will stop at nothing to intimidate and frighten the less informed among us. Look at Hannity and Beck on Faux news.
They are yelling Fire! in an already panicked theater:
Web Link