We are a nation of laws, but nobody said that they were smart or fair laws. We spend billions of dollars annually to try and stop the very things that can't be stopped and we waste this money year after year. LEGALIZE and TAX marijuana, prostitution, gambling and all of the vices that people want. Right now all of that money goes into the illegal underground criminal world and doesn't help the economy one bit. LEGALIZE and TAX, thats your only hope.
Case in point...Treasure Island was given up by the Navy and that was a golden opportunity for the Bay Area to make some real money. But what did they do?, they built condos...big deal. condos. They should have built casinos and ran ferry service from both sides of the bay. It even had the perfect name and it would have been a pot of gold with all of the tourism that SF gets. But no, gambling's illegal so they built condos...big deal. But at least Sunol is safe.

ever run into a grower during harvest Tracy? Ever see the traps some of these scum laydown to protect their stash? you know nothing Tracy

legalize all vices? I think not!

At least legalize SOME vices ... Opps we already do: booze, pornography (go to your liquor store and see for yourself), cigarettes, gambling, prostitution (craigslist + Nevada), overeating and obesity, illiteracy, gang warfare. I'm getting ridiculous, but you get the point.

Let's just make the most harmless one illegal. That makes sense. Good use of our tax dollars.

There would be no traps if pot was legal.
Ever see the pesticides wine growers spray on their crops? Ever come across a head in a windshield on the way back from wine-tasting in Napa?

" There would be no traps if pot was legal.
Ever see the pesticides wine growers spray on their crops? Ever come across a head in a windshield on the way back from wine-tasting in Napa?"

Nice! Yeah, I don't understand why cigarettes and alcohol are legal, but not marijuana.

Drugs should always remain illegal. If you want to know about pot ask my nephew. He just got released last night as a matter of fact after spending the last 4 years bouncing around between San Quentin and Folsom. He started out smoking pot and could not get high enough so started doing meth then stealing and then robbing and then assault. He believes that had he not started with pot he would be different today.

Michael "He started out smoking pot and could not get high enough so started doing meth then stealing and then robbing and then assault."

Boy that's a stretch. Blame it on the pot, not the nephew. It's the old "The devil made me do it" argument. Yeah, I'm in San Quentin because I wasn't breast fed. I taught in prisons (and San Quentin). Believe me, it's not the pot, it's a way of thinking. "I want something from somebody that I don't want to take responsibility for". Pure and simple. And if you've seen as many of your nephews as I have, you'll understand your providing the best argument for his NOT taking responsibility for his actions.

Michael, are you aware that alcohol is a drug?

Follow the logic please!

I felt the need for meat, so I got a hamburger at McDonalds. It seemed harmless enough. But then I craved another, and another. The need wasn't going away, those little junior hamburgers just weren't cuttin' it for me. So I got serious, and had a Big Mac. Once a day, then twice, then, well, now I weigh 300 pounds. If it hadn't been for those harmless looking hamburgers that I started with, I never would have progressed to Big Macs and the 300 pound weight gain that I'm stuck with today.
The problem isn't me, it's those frickin' little hamburgers that I started with. They should be illegal.

Just because some vices are not regulated by misdemeanor or felony laws (alcohol, tobacco) doesn't mean we should allow all vices to be that way. Seems to me that neglected and frightened children and holes punched in the walls and doors as a result of alcoholism is a pretty good argument for cracking down harder on that vice. Day by day this situational morality eats away at the fabric of our society and turns us from the things that are really important in life. Take a stand and don't stand by while liberal political correctness ("it doesn't really hurt anyone") erodes the foundations of what has made America great.

The differences between right and wrong as prescribed by the liberals become more gray and that is by design as at some point we completely lose our direction or true north as driven by some level of morality and will go the way of sheep. Drugs are just one indicator of a breakdown in society and in morality. Drugs are wrong plan and simple and the easy way out is to ignore it.

So, if I understand some of the posts here, anything that has the potential to create a harmful situation should be banned like burgers, beer, pot, etc. If you have one then you will be 300 pounds or end up in San Quentin. (Shaking head to extract confusing logic). Okay, then commuting, marriage, having children, desk jobs, red lights, long lines, fossil fuel, sugar, Doritos should be banned because, believe me, if you have just one, they can lead to fists through doors, obesity, jail, suicide, shorter life spans. (Shaking head again to regain sanity). No! I think personal responsibility is probably a better solution. I may want to yell at my wife, drink 10 beers, gain 25 pounds, but it is my lack of personal responsibility that leads me to be stupid, not the burger and fries (the phone rings)

Einstein--- Once again, are you aware that alcohol is a drug? Should alcohol be illegal too? Alcohol is very arguably more harmful than pot. Causing much more violent behavior and secondary/addictive effects. It is true that many drugs are highly addictive (crystal meth, crack, cocaine, etc...), and should be illegal, but marijuana is NOT one of them. Legalize and tax, it's the smart thing to do.

Legalize it,

Why not make legal, crystl, heroin, cocaine, rape incest, multiple wives anything goes? Come on give us a break you like smokin reefer or chiva and it has nothing to do with tax or any of that. you are just a lil tweeker.

About the marijuana: Legalize and tax it. The drug wars would be less, we would have high quality and more dollars would go into the state tax fund each year. If this money were used for the schools, we would have plenty to go around!

Individual responsibility applies to alcohol, why not pot?

Dont understand all the anger. Plain and simple, Marijuana IS illegal! And until that law changes, people who break that law will be held accountable for their actions. Its a choice people, you either comply with the law, or you dont and you suffer the consequences. Seems simple enough to me....Its common sense, people. Basic fundamental responsibility of being a human being, and an American citizen.

Lighen up!

As far as Michael and his nephew is concerned, the fact that pot and the other drugs that Michael took are illegal did not prevent his free access to them. So how would legalizing pot have changed Michael's story?

When there is no common sense to a law, such as the one that makes pot illegal, you work to change it. Laws in the U.S. are changed, gotten rid of and made all the time. It's not like they were handed down by God. Stupid, flawed humans make stupid, flawed laws. You don't sit around acting like they mean something morally and waiting for the day the law is changed.

Trach, My nephew told me that most of the inmates in prison are there because of some drug related offense. Either use, distribution, or crimes committed related to substance abuse. He was given drug treatment while at Folsom and told me that most of the individuals in his classes started their journey with drugs by using pot. He is now going to try and teach to the youth the evils of drug use through a christian outreach program and feels hopeful if he can tell his story he can keep others from going down the same path. Interestingly enough, he told me that they have taxed and raised the prices of cigarettes to the point where inside they are viewed as being more valuable than money. A single cigarette in prison can fetch up to $50 !!! and because of the high cost has created a large blackmarket for bootleg cigarettes. So do not think legalizing pot will make it more controlled as it will go the other way. Why grow it and see the price go up by having the government control it?

So, don't legalize it to keep the price down?
They waste our money looking for it and ripping up plants but that never changes it's easy availability.
It's a joke. When the police or whoever does anything regarding pot (arresting people, flying helicopters over land, etc.) they are wasting their time, which is our money. It's as easy to buy pot today as it was yesterday and will be tomorrow.

Tracy, I believe if you legalize it the legal pot will go up in price and the illegal pot (yes it will always be there) will stay a little less than the legal variety. It is now a huge business and just by the government saying ok now it is legal and we are going to tax it will not diminish to desire to make money and as you say it is easy to get, was yesterday, and will be tomorrow and that will all stay the same but as with other addictive substances in the end it steals ambition and desire.

Pot a gateway drug? Is it just a line we draw in drugs that says it starts here? I have smoked pot and never done any other illegal drugs (I'm 45 so the gate's rusted shut for me). I don't think I'm that unique in my 'drug history'.
Here's my view of the 'gateway to drugs'...
Fruit - refined sugar - caffeine - nicotine - alcohol - pot - mushrooms/LSD/Ecstasy - powder drugs - needle drugs - Embalming fluid.

So, when prohibition was ended in 1933 was there already a huge business to profit from illegal alcohol? Yes... Did this business last...maybe for awhile, but do most of us find that people making bootleg beer and selling it for less than what we pay at seven-eleven a problem...not really. Why would this process with marijuana be any different?

Michael- I am glad that your nephew has gotten clean and is helping others. I wonder though if you were to ask him if most addicts in prison are able to drink alcohol what you would say. Addiction is addiction, it is a disease. Once addicted to drugs, people have to drastically change their lives to avoid alcohol as well. Most addicts start with alcohol and move on, not marijuana. My brother is an addict, he has schooled me on this. Pot is just less physically addictive than alcohol is. If you have that addiction disease it starts with alcohol and you will move into other drugs, or you will just be an alcoholic and let down yourself, your family, hurt people, because of your disease.
addiction is addiction. It just seems hypocritical of the government to decide alcohol is okay, but not pot, when alcohol has been proven to be more harmful.

Think about it,

they do drink alcohol in prison but prefer drugs. with alcohol you can only drink so much and then have a hangover which you cannot do everyday. with pot they can spoke it like no tomorrow and wake up in the morning and have no hangover. In addition, you have to drink a lot of alcohol to get drunk whereas with pot a couple of puffs and you are there

Michael, sorry dude, but that is absolutely not true, when you smoke serious pot you build up a tolerance and it takes huge amounts to get the same high. Or you just can't anymore.
Of course while they are IN prison they are going to prefer drugs, smaller, easier to hide and sneak in. I'm wondering about when they get out. Is marijuana really their drug of choice??
I also know some alcoholics who are able to binge and drink everyday for many days. The hangover doesn't seem to matter much when you have the DISEASE. You're not really thinking about the hangover when you get that urge to drink.

Think about it, dude huh? haven't been called that in years and am in my 50's now. If paroled they certainly do not smoke pot because a condition of their parole is that they submit to monthly testing for drugs and alcohol. If they do a hair folicle sample pot stays in the body and is detectable for up to 6 months so they stay away from it completely and anything else if you do not want to go back and if you have ever done hard time you never want to go back. You seem like a good kid so do yourself a favor and stay away from drugs (of any kind) and alcohol as they have no positive benefit and will rob you or your freedom and passion for life........simply not worth it.

TV, the internet and doughnuts steal ambition and desire too.

It would be difficult to find a human being who went to college and lived on campus for a year who has not smoked pot. Yet, the majority of college graduates are not in prison on drug charges.
Pot as a 'gateway' drug is a myth, just like the myth of some shady character hanging around high schools trying to get kids hooked on drugs. The people selling drugs to high school students are other high school students.

Its time to legalize pot this would not only save money but the government could make enough money to provide education, health care and social programs.

Michael

You have a serious problem with your nephew. I know how you feel. One of my brother’s kids is in jail. But, honestly, the nephew’s been a jerk since he was two. The other kids are great. I just can’t reduce my nephew's pathetic behavior to pot. It seems too simplistic. I think the nephew's gateway drug was "narcissism". But, I honestly don't know.

Who in the hell would even grow pot in Sunol? I knew people who tried growing it in the hills by Castle Wood and the deer ate it before it was even mature enough to harvest. Maybe it was a "Nancy Botwin" and she truly didn't know what she was doing.

Tracy,

Try not to be too astonished, but...I'm that human being you thought would be hard to find...and psssst...I know a lot more just like me!

I grew up with an alcoholic uncle, parents who smoked and drank, a step dad who smoked the occassional weed "outside", an older brother who did all the mild stuff. These were my fine examples.

My uncle died of alcohol poisoning, my parents both have lung related illnesses, my step dad bailed and moved to Oregon and joined some hippy drug cult, and my brother is a 3x divorced single dad who I'm sure does things he thinks he needs to get by.

Me? Yeah, so I struggled with these upstanding citizens through life until I hit 18 and realized I didn't need any of it. Up until then I tried zero - and I mean zero of any substance. I kept my door locked with my window open in freezing temperatures so I wouldn't smell like them or have to be around them and their drug use of any kind.

So I took off on my own at 18, went to a JC and worked 4 jobs, started attending church on my own - having no previous experience in my jacked-up childhood with a church, I reasoned these people couldn't be as bad as my family and was right, transferred to a 4 year school, lived in the dorms, graduated, went on to get my Masters degree, met a nice person and got married, moved to Ptown and had kids.

From birth until my wedding night at age 26, I was and I married a virgin, we both had an alcohol beverage for the first time on our honeymoon (champagne - the real stuff!) and I have never smoked pot, taken any drugs, or drank more than a 1/2 a glass of wine at a time since. So there goes your theory...or at least I am the one.

Those of you who "do" drugs or those of you that have, you all bought into the lie that others do it so it's not a big deal. As a young child I saw the ugliness of all of these "vices". You may very well be lucky to enjoy some little part of it and never have it escalate. You may, however, not be one of the lucky ones.

That was my logic after seeing it didn't work out well for my family, so I opted to steer clear and be and stay 100% clean. It's so nice having zero history or "issues". Like my best friend who decided to get wasted with a guy she wanted to like her in high school and he sexually assaulted her. I not only warned her, but I was the one that found her and had to clean her up from all the vomit. He used her and literally pushed her aside and left her in her own vomit. What a sicko. I wanted no part of that crowd and I searched out a better one.

It's funny because I chose instead to go find people who don't get involved in all this crap and I'm considered the weird one...I'm the rarity? A religion is so "limiting". Shows you how stupid the majority are. I have real freedom from chains, you know?

There is something seriously wrong with y'all if your logic is that doing drugs is freedom and I am stuck with rules...hmmm, seems like I'm the one with real freedom from these things.

By the way, for those of you that don't think pot is as bad as other drugs (my favorite is when people compare it to smoking cigarettes!), in my practice, I see laryngectomy patients. Talk to any neck surgeon and you'll find out the little known fact that pot smokers increase their chance of a laryngeal cancer faster than butter on an open flame. These medical facts are topics at conferences in the medical community and it is so sad to hear people so uninformed state otherwise.

Those that try to justify to the rest of us non-users that ingestion of this chemical into their bodies for "medicinal" purposes is not detrimental, only further demonstrate the deterioration that has already taken place of their own lucid functioning secondary to the drug use. It is too funny. Kind of sad, too.

Awesome. Way to rebel against the folks.

First of all pot is legal and taxed here in California. Go sit in front of any marijuana dispensary (they are everywhere, probably about 30 within 30 miles of P Town). Count the number of people that appear sick compared to twenty and thirty something’s (and older) that are healthy as horses. I know you can't always tell but you'll see what I mean if you watch the 'patients'. $150 doctor appointment where you say my back, head, etc. hurts chronically or a hundred other reasons (doc pays taxes on that), $50 to get the prescription card (they pay taxes on that too), and then buy pot (again taxed)in every community in California(you might have to drive a little). So it is not saving our economy as we can all see.
Tracy - You should be proud of yourself but I think many just think it's hypocritical to have pot be illegal when cigarettes and alcohol are not. Not that pot causes zero harm but compared to the tobacco and alcohol it's next to nothing. That is because alcohol and tobacco are so bad, not that pot is so good. They cause many more tragedies and death, with diseases and consequence we all no well because we all have been touched by them one way or another. Obesity trumps pot also. In a perfect world we would have none of these things, but that's not the world we live in. The money we spend on pot eradication and jailing pot users and sellers is an awful trade off when it's still everywhere. It's not working. Just like with alcohol prohibition, it's a good idea but doesn't work. We need a solution not a moral stand that is useless. I wish we had to be forced to not use fossil fuel burning machinery, jog and exercise daily, eat right, not drink or smoke, blah blah blah. People are not controlled easily, we need to deal with what we have. I'm more for banning alcohol and tobacco then legalizing drugs. But I know that won't work.
Tracy – By the way what school did you go to? Christian college? I’m not being a jerk about it but virgin, no smoking, drinking, or drugs, says to me not Chico State.

Web Link
See for yourself, legal pot is everywhere around us. Getting the card is incredibly easy. Doctors hand them out to everyone who comes in. If you don't believe me I tell you what doctor to go to in Oakland and unless you try not to get one you will walk out with a prescription in your hand, and $150 (cash only) out of your pocket.

27 in S.F
7 in Oakland
And there are more that are not listed on the site. Remember there was one in dublin across from the police department? Hayward area has at least 10. They hand you a list when you get your card of Bay Area disencaries that fills the wole page in 12 pt. font and tell you there are some not listed that you have to find out about by word of mouth.

just a lil opinion,

Were your comments more directed to "Not me"? You wrote Tracy, but I didn't see the connection.

Just trying to help out...

Good discussion, btw...

It's ironic that at the same time we're pushing to decriminalize marijuana (and maybe even legalize it), we're doing the opposite for tobacco...passing more and more laws making it more and more illegal to smoke tobacco. Hard to reconcile this...it's as if we're being told on one hand, MJ use is totally harmless, but tobacco, now that's downright evil.

Since I don't smoke, and hate second hand smoke, I've certainly benefited from smoke-free laws but there's hypocrisy here that's kind of funny.

Pleas res,

You said it was "kind of funny"...

Funny - "Ha-ha" or Funny - "wierd"?

Pleasant Resident, you are right on and your timing is perfect as yesterday they came out and declared marijuana to be the same as tobacco smoke in terms of cancer risk. I bet if everyone above who wishes for it to be legal will think again when they see the taxes and regulations applied. Source of revenue that no one wants to miss out on.

Dear Tracy,

Was reflecting on your article here. It seems that you may have had a negative experience with a family member, relative, or friend, in regards to the bad results of abusing alcohol. And yes you're right...alcohol is a drug. Anything taken that alters one's mind, is a drug...even coffee. But do keep in mind that some drugs are far more detrimental than others, especially when abused. At the same time you can't disregard all the folks that use alcohol in a balanced responsible manner. A glass of red wine with dinner is far more healthy/beneficial than one smoking a joint everyday. Vaporizing or cooking with it may be another manner? Most likely not. Myself have had a grandfather and uncle that abused alcohol in a severe manner. That doesn't mean everyone else in my family or myself has that problem. We've learned from the above, what it can do in regards to destroying one's life. Like anything in life, if one doesn't know how to moderate their vices, it will have a negative effect in thee end. That goes for pot as well. Seen some in the past using it so excessively, that they don't want to get off their lazy butts to do anything else but be in a "cobweb." At the same time I'm not disregarding folks that use it for medical reasons, or whatever reason they deem, in a very private and responsible manner where it's not abused.

You're completely wrong in regards to drunk drivers getting a slap on the wrist. With MAD in full force, current severe laws for drunk driving, is even very financially severe with one getting his or her's first DUI. It can financially destroy that person's life for ten years, destroy a marriage, family, or put a big dent in it. Proof? Have had a friend that got his first DUI a few years back. After attorney fees, court cost, fines, and his insurance going through the roof, he stated it's about a $20,000.00 mistake he'll never make again. The only folks that get away with it more than once are the ones that take more than one chance regardless of how they don't care about others safety on the road, have big bucks, rich parents that bail them out, and still drive drunk regardless if they get caught again. Keep in mind that's a very small percentage overall, when they can't financially afford that kind of mistake more than once.

Back to the pot ordeal: You may not realize that pot is legal and taxed here in CA. for medical patients, and the Feds my soon make it the same in the entire U.S. There's some medical centers here in the Bay area that are running in a legit manner, paying taxes. Do have a problem with people growing in places where they're not suppose to (government land/national parks) where they're packing guns, making dangerous traps in which the situation can seriously harm or kill innocent lives. They're also not paying taxes for most of that type of crop. Big time "tax free cash" is currently in the hands of people that get to have much more freedom to buy and do things that most tax payers like myself can't compete with. So is this truly fair to you? The only way these things can change is for the government itself to grow, regulate, tax all other growers, and sellers, bar none. Otherwise you're going to have folks like myself quite bitter seeing these folks making money big "tax free" bucks, while others like myself are still having to pay taxes for all the hard working income we bring in, at the end of the day.

In thee end...everything in moderation is truly a "question of balance," but lacking in our current society.

Not be one of the lucky ones? I think most people who have smoked pot have not gone on to be drug addicts. I don't have statistics. But seriously, if you got the number of people who have ever smoked pot, and then the number of them who became drug addicts, I don't think you'd find that the majority did.
Haven't most four- year-lived- on- campus- for -at -least- a -year-college students smoked pot? I think the majority have, and I don't think the majority of college graduates became drug addicts. I could be wrong about the majority having tried pot. It seemed pretty darn common to me.
To the person who wrote that we're hypocritical because we're legally limiting smoking but want to legalize pot...at present, pot smokers aren't making strangers breathe in their second-hand smoke. That is the issue--second hand smoke. There is no hypocrisy. There would be if people were smoking and exhaling pot smoke in your face outside Safeway. If that happens, there will be laws about it just like with cigarette smoke.
To DL, I guess it's a personal thing...what makes you bitter doesn't make me bitter, and vice versa. I don't care if people are making tax free money growing and selling pot. That's their choice, I could do it if I wanted to, I choose not to. They have to deal with consequences if they're caught.
But, I'm sure there's stuff that I'm bitter about that you don't care about.
If they legalized it, the traps and guns would be gone. I'm sure during Prohibition there was similar stuff going on. The U.S. gov't is being stupid.

Tracy,

Don't base my life on "if's," as mentioned in the beginning of your last sentence. Bitter about dangerous traps, guns, and cash free money to made? No, "logically and compassionately concerned" for the safety of others, being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Hiking in a public land park with danger lurking ahead, is just the tip of the iceberg. Bitter that this is a "free for all mess," living in the "Wild West anything goes attitude." That isn't fair for all of the folks trying to live by the current rules/laws, in our society. You've been so strong on your one point of "why isn't pot legal, alcohol and cigarettes are!" Yet don't seem to realize your wish may come sometime soon, regardless how you can't seem to see others points of views, which may be a tad broader and understanding of both sides.


You stated "But, I'm sure there's stuff that I'm bitter about that you don't care about."

You're completely off, regarding that remark. Who are you to make false accusations towards others? Certainly understand that there's been a hell lot of problems and dangers that go along with alcohol abuse in our society. Again...everything in moderation. And yes, our government is quite ignorant (or stupid as you mentioned), with "passing and not passing" certain laws, along with wasteful spending, which has been going on for decades.

You also said, "I don't care if people are making tax free money growing and selling pot. That's their choice, I could do it if I wanted to, I choose not to. They have to deal with consequences if they're caught."

Well now, you mean you don't care that our state is completely "broke," could use more revenue in all areas, including taxation of all growers and sellers? Fines for those who don't go by the rules, and grow in places forbidden?

That along with releasing the small time people in prison for pot crimes, would turn the debt in a positive direction. Unfortunately there's always a "gray area" with the pros and cons for getting things like this on the table to resolve in a fair manner for all.

Oh yea, great idea Tracy...let's have the extra consequences of the illegal growers/sellers get caught, fill our prison system up even more, that uses up more tax revenue than you'll ever imagine. Like your style...you should run for Governor.

I don't think we're understanding each other. I don't want pot growers or sellers in prison. I want pot legal. No traps then, right? I don't think I had enough time to read the long post you originally wrote, so I probably didn't understand all your points. I wish I had more time so I knew how we were misunderstanding each other.

Tracy,

If you took the "time and space" to read your comments prior to my last response to them, you'll see some valid misunderstandings. Why contradict yourself? Obviously in one subject matter alone, you state "they have to deal with consequences if they're caught." Well we both know that means most are put in jail when caught, filling up the prisons at a faster rate. How do you know that if or when pot becomes legal that there is NOT going to be a single pot grower no longer laying down a traps again, never mind still carrying guns? Hmmmm...are you the spokes person for all pot growers?

If you take the time to truly read all my points, you might "see the light," in regards to my realistic views regarding this subject matter.