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About this blog: In January 2002 I started writing my own online "newspaper" titled "The San Ramon Observer." I reported on City Council meetings and other happenings in San Ramon. I tried to be objective in my coverage of meetings and events, and...  (More)

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Who Won the Debate?

Uploaded: Sep 27, 2016
I watched the Clinton/Trump debate twice tonight -- first when it was broadcast live on MSNBC and again when it was replayed on CNN. After the debate the pundits discussed "Who Won?" The "winner" depended on the political leanings of the commenters making the decision. MSNBC said it was Hillary. Fox seemed to be leaning towards Trump but Megan Kelly declared it "A Tie." Right Megan, we get it!

I called it a Tie too, but that means Trump won. Trump made some faces at some of Hillary's comments, but overall he was quite civil and even lucid. He didn't say anything outrageous and even sounded sane to me. Since he wasn't awful, it must be good.

That means either I've turned into a Trumpanzee or Trump's handlers did a very good job making him look and sound Presidential. Maybe I should hire Trump's team to train my cats.

Speaking of cats (how about that segue), I bought a new Cat Tree for them to climb on or hide in. The climber took to it right away. The hider still prefers hiding under the kitchen sink or under the bed, but there's a neat cubby on the tree I'm hoping she will start using.

Speaking of hiding in a cubby (another great segue), Libertarian Presidential candidate Gary Johnson was not invited to debate, even though over one million supporters, including me, signed a petition to "Let Gary Debate." He's hoping to get into the next debate in October, which should heat things up a little if the Commission on Presidential Debates gives Gary a chance.

Johnson has been criticized, even ridiculed, for not knowing what "Aleppo" is. I replied to a critic on Yahoo that it shouldn't matter if he didn't know about a city in Turkey. I was promptly put in my place. Aleppo is the rebel held city in Syria.

Well now we know why I support Gary Johnson. Libertarians do not support getting into wars in foreign countries, whether in Syria or Turkey. Look at the messes we got into in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even Trump says no more foreign wars, but I'm not counting on that to vote for him.

Comments

 +   13 people like this
Posted by American, a resident of Danville,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 7:21 am

I think Democrats will claim Hillary won the debate, and Republicans will argue that Trump won. What really matters is will the 8% undecided voters think the debate pushed them one way or the other in voting for a candidate. Personally, I think Trump's performance at the debate will help him get more undecided voters, as his attack on Hillary's increasing regulations on small business, and his call for more law and order, is probably more important to undecided voters than any of the garbage Hillary slung at him during the debate. I also think undecided voters may have been concerned about Trump's temperament, but he showed more restraint than Hillary when she attacked him for comments he made about woman, in not giving it right back to her about her attacking all those women Bill Clinton preyed on over the years for being liars. Trump took the high road in not attacking Hillary on this, which shows his actual growth over the campaign, which may be important to undecided voters. Overall, I think Trump's performance looked presidential, while Hillary looked desperate, which is funny since she has been a Washington insider for 26 years, and Trump is a true outsider.

Roz, it is time to give up on Gary Johnson. All those years of smoking pot has killed his brain cells, as not knowing what Aleppo is, and more importantly his calling for getting rid of the Homeland Security Department(one of the only Departments we actually really need at the Federal level)


 +   6 people like this
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 11:15 am

even ann coulter has stated that hillary won...

it was a clear loss for the trummpet...tee hee

i'm so tickled that i'm runnning out to grab a double bacon cheeseburger...

HOORAY! laughing all the way...


 +   4 people like this
Posted by Sam, a resident of Oak Hill,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 11:36 am

Both Trump and Clinton performed at their respective expected levels during that first part of the debate. In the second part of the debate, however, particularly the last half hour, Trump began to fall apart with his answers, often issuing meandering, incoherent statements that had little to do with the actual question, such as the time he went off on a tangent talking about his 10 year old son who was a whiz at computers after being asked a question on cyber security.

By the way, after hearing all the talk from the right-wing about Hillary's poor health with neurological, circulatory, breathing, and other physical problems, I was curious to see if there would be any apparent weaknesses in Hillary's performance as the night wore on. There were none. She was as crisp, coherent, and focused at the end of the 90-minute debate as she was at the beginning of it. On the contrary, Donald Trump showed definite signs of fading and tiring out as the night wore on, with a lot of strange, unfocused quips and comments ending with the one about his hatred of Rosie O'Donnel at the end. It was amusing watching him attempt to question Hillary's "stamina" when the whole audience could see that he, not Hillary, was the one who was tiring and losing concentration towards the end of the evening debate.


 +   1 person likes this
Posted by Quail Run Parent, a resident of San Ramon,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 11:43 am

Quail Run Parent is a registered user.

Trump was on the ropes right away and then making his non-professional comments.
But, really, there needs to be a viable, electable 3rd option. The 2 we have are both clowns.


 +   6 people like this
Posted by Sue Thayer, a resident of Birdland,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 11:55 am

Hillary was, as Sam says -- crisp, coherent, on-point, Presidential.

Trump lied constantly (Wash Post called them "false facts" which is a ridiculous oxymoron), could only ramble-on in terms limited to 'bests' and 'worsts', and amply demonstrated that wide, orange streak of Narcissism that others have IDd -- it's not about you, Don -- it's about Us. Very. Scary.

People have complimented moderator Lester Holt, but I thought he lost control and consistently allowed The D to steamroll him. Fortunately, that only made the candidate look worse.


 +   4 people like this
Posted by American, a resident of Danville,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 12:53 pm

For those 8% undecided voters, I do think Donald Trump's platform of law and order will be very important to those voters. There is no debate that Donald Trump favors a law and order policy, with hiring more police officers, and using effective techniques such as "Stop and Frisk" to get guns away from convicted felons and other criminals. The Democrats, who are notoriously soft on crime, have actually tried to allow convicted felons the right to vote(in California and Virginia), realizing convicted felons overwhelming support Democrats who are soft on crime.

Take a long at liberal Democrat Rahm Emanuel, the Mayor of Chicago. He previously was Director of the Finance Committee for President Bill Clinton, and later a senior advisor and policy strategist for President Clinton. He was also later President Obama's chief of staff. As Mayor of Chicago, liberal Mayor Rahm Emanuel has actually seen a record 532 homicides in Chicago this year, more than New York City and Los Angeles combined! His liberal policies, including the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation(which of course only keeps law abiding citizens from having guns), has turned Chicago into a more dangerous city than Aleppo(that is in Syria, Gary Johnson)

If you like the job liberal Rahm Emanuel has done for Chicago, wait till his longtime close friend Hillary is elected, as she will do for our country what Rahm Emanuel has done for Chicago: Create a violent, dangerous place, where only criminals have guns, and the police are treated as enemies, while criminals are free to run the streets and kill innocent men, women, and children.

Even Al Sharpton, and other prominent African-American leaders are calling for him to resign as Mayor, as his liberal, soft on crime policies, have created the most unsafe city in the world.

While Obama and Hillary blame the police for everything, and allow rioters to take over cities, it sends a message that law and order does not exist anymore in our nation. Under Obama, the murder rate in the United States went up 10.8% in 2015, the largest increase in the murder rate since 1971. Instead getting tough on crime, Obama and Hillary attack the police, and glorify idiots like Colin Kapernick, for refusing to stand for the national anthem. The national anthem and sports use to transend politics and unify our country. Under Obama, and Hillary, even the national anthem and sports are divided and polarized. United we stand, and divided we fall.

Trump's law and order platform is something that should be very, very important to undecided voters, as crime affects us all, rich and poor, white and black, and more than ever we need a leader who will not let our country turn into Chicago.


 +   3 people like this
Posted by Sam, a resident of Oak Hill,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 1:09 pm

@American

You went way off the rails even in your very first paragraph. First, as you should be aware if you watched the Presidential debate or did some basic research, "stop and frisk" was ruled to be unconstitutional. Trump is not going to bring "stop and frisk" back unless he has plans to overthrow the Federal Court system and the US Constitution. Also, the majority of states - not just California and Virginia - give felons their right to vote back after they have completed their sentences. Those states include conservative states such as Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia, and Utah. You seem to be living in a Trumpian dream world where facts just don't matter.


 +   5 people like this
Posted by American, a resident of Danville,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 1:57 pm

"Sam", you are factually wrong yet again. The appellate court ruled that the liberal trial judge who claimed Stop and Frisk was unconstitutional was actually unfairly biased and overruled the judge and sent the case back to the trial court to be re-litigated. Unfortunately, the liberal current Mayor of New York refused to do so. Mayor Giuliani, and even liberal Mayor Bloomberg, were in favor of Stop and Frisk.

By the way, where is "Oak Hill", your alleged residence? Why do you feel the need to chime in incorrect facts in Danville Weekly?


 +   5 people like this
Posted by Sam, a resident of Oak Hill,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 2:21 pm

@American: : ""Sam", you are factually wrong yet again. The appellate court ruled that the liberal trial judge who claimed Stop and Frisk was unconstitutional was actually unfairly biased and overruled the judge and sent the case back to the trial court to be re-litigated."

Not quite. Here's the story: "On October 31, 2013, the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit blocked the order requiring changes to the New York Police Department's stop-and-frisk program and removed Judge Shira Scheindlin from the case.[27][28][29] On November 9, 2013, the city asked a federal appeals court to vacate Scheindlin's orders.[30][31] On November 22, 2013, the federal appellate court rejected the city's motion for a stay of the judge's orders.[32]" (Wikipedia: Stop and Frisk: Web Link ).

Now admittedly this isn't a simple story but the bottom line is that while the Court of Appeals blocked the judge's order about the NYPD having to submit a list of written changes, the ruling itself was never vacated. The fact that the Court of Appeals removed the judge from the case probably does indicated that it wasn't pleased by some aspects of his ruling, but the point remains that at this time the ruling itself, including the part about the unconstitutionality of "stop and frisk", does stand.

"By the way, where is "Oak Hill", your alleged residence? Why do you feel the need to chime in incorrect facts in Danville Weekly?"

Sorry, Hombre, but I'm commenting in the Pleasanton Weekly. From my perspective, you're the outsider.


 +   3 people like this
Posted by hoops, a resident of Mohr Park,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 2:44 pm

hoops is a registered user.

Trump did not have the stamina to get through the debate without looking like he was gassed which was very ironic.
Like or dislike Hillary,at least she was competent.Trump once again,as he has his entire time running for office,proved has no depth of knowledge on any subject other than real estate.The fact that he will not release his tax returns and has consistently tried to convey that he cannot because of the audit is very telling.
I am not a big fan of Hillary,and she certainly has been evasive and less than truthful about some matters.On the side,I have learned quite a lot about Trump and his business practices and his campaign in general.I say without question,he is the least qualified person in the modern history of this country to be a nominee as well as the least truthful.He makes Hillary look like a saint.I get the anger and people not wanting more of the same,etc.,but Trump?Any other candidate in history would have been finished after last nights performance,but not him.He even whiffed big time on the tv star,charisma scale.I have honestly never seen him talk in depth or detail about how he is going to accomplish anything he says he will do.Last night was more of the same sophomoric I will make America great again b.s.Really? How?I need a little more than because I am Donald Trump and I am a great negotiator so all of these countries and corporations will bow to my vast skills.Uh Huh.Sure they will,especially when an assistant will have to speak for you because you have no idea what is going on.


 +   8 people like this
Posted by Sue Thayer , a resident of Birdland,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 2:44 pm

As over-matched as the debate itself was, the aftermath has been particularly telling. Trump stiffed the Nassau GOP gathering he was scheduled to attend, and just went home -- perhaps he was all tuckered-out? Hillary celebrated at an after-party with friends in Westbury, CT.

Then this morning, as the magnitude of his loss became clear, everywhere (including the likes of Anne Coulter and Fox News), he blamed: the rules, the format, the microphone, the moderator, even the pageant winner (see any pattern here?) -- in short, ANYONE and everyone but himself and his ADHD for his troubles. A sick, fragile ego on prominent display.

Call me a dog, or a pig, or the cleaning lady, but you can bet I'll be voting. I'm with her.

And just by the way -- where do you get off, "American," putting other people's aliases in quotes, like it matters? Start signing yours with your given name and then come talk to us.


 +  Like this comment
Posted by rosalindr, a resident of San Ramon,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 3:15 pm

rosalindr is a registered user.

Wow, this debate really was a litmus test. It doesn't seem to have changed any minds here but hardened the support for your preferred candidate. There are two more debates scheduled before the election. I hope we shall get more clarity on what each candidate will do if actually elected.

Roz


 +   3 people like this
Posted by American, a resident of Danville,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 3:17 pm

"Sue Thayer":

You are clearly a Hillary supporter, so it is no surprise that you would feel she performed well at the debate. I was not a Trump supporter, and actually endorsed Marco Rubio, and later John Kasich, in the primary. However, compared to Hillary, the biggest liar and most untrustworthy person in politics this century, I am supporting Trump. As a Trump supporter, it does not really matter what I think about the debate.

The only significance of the debate is what the 8% undecided voters think about it. I do think Trump's platform of cutting business regulations and red tape to grow the economy, and law and order, speaks to the undecided, more than any of the personal garbage Hillary threw at him.

Finally, how do you justify Hillary blaming the victims, all those young, unsophisticated ladies Bill has preyed on all these years, as being liars and opportunist? She is an alleged champion of women? It is bad enough how Bill has treated women his entire life, but Hillary then attacking them and calling them liars and worse, for her own political gain, is unforgiving. If not for the DNA on that blue dress, Hillary's lies about the "right wing conspiracy" would have been the alleged truth to the masses. Hillary also slandered Paula Jones, calling her a liar, although the Clinton's later quietly ponied up over $800,000 to settle the lawsuit against her leech of a husband.

Hillary will do and say anything to get what she wants, and the scandals and lies will only escalate if she gets the ultimate power of the presidency. There is a reason that polls show the number one word that Americans associate with Hillary is "Liar".

I think the 8% undecided will factor that in when casting their votes.


 +   4 people like this
Posted by observation, a resident of another community,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 3:36 pm

Hillary crushed Trump in the debate. He would not answer all questions and although he did not admit guilt about not renting to blacks, he paid the settlement. He deflects when he does not want to answer a question. He talked about Hillary's cough, but what about his sniffles or cold virus?
He did not even make sense about the birther question because he wanted to be sure that if a black man is selected to be President of the U.S., then we better make sure that he is an American!What does that tell you!! President Obama did not start this war and he stopped the recession we were about to go into. Also, he has the nerve to say that Hillary insults people. How many insults has he done? Remember: Love always overcomes hate!!! Anyone could clearly see his frustration. I think he had a history lesson last night. If anypne thought he won, they are in total denial! Commonsense should tell you who to vote for!! Just my comments and observations and if he says that she lies, so does he and everyone else that I know has told at least one lie. If you haven't, then that is the lie.


 +   6 people like this
Posted by Sam, a resident of Oak Hill,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 3:37 pm

@American :"However, compared to Hillary, the biggest liar and most untrustworthy person in politics this century, I am supporting Trump."

What I don't get is that so many Trump supporters want to make an issue of lying as if they thought that they were running a candidate known for honesty and integrity. You do get the fact that Donald Trump is a habitual liar, right? Surely you're not so far removed from reality that you think that Trump is not an incessant liar? It's as if you think that you're running some Boy Scout like John McCain.


 +   5 people like this
Posted by Sue Thayer, a resident of Birdland,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 3:38 pm

There was Only One adulterer on the stage last night, "american."


 +   4 people like this
Posted by Sam, a resident of Oak Hill,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 3:53 pm

@Sue Thayer :"There was Only One adulterer on the stage last night, "american.""

Gee, adulterer, con-man, sexist, liar.....

OK, Hillary is no saint, but it sure is difficult to claim that the high road leads to your candidate if you're a Trump supporter.

Just sayin'.


 +   4 people like this
Posted by American, a resident of Danville,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 4:07 pm

"Sue Thayer": How do we know that? There were a lot of rumors and speculation about Vince Foster and her at the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock. Ever wonder what were in those 30,000 e-mails she had destroyed?

You did not answer my question. How do you justify Hillary attacking the credibility of all those young ladies Bill has preyed on over their years? Imagine if they were your daughter. You would be furious at Bill, and furious at Hillary for not only enabling his disgusting behavior, but then attacking the victims, and causing yet more damage to these young ladies. Shame on her. She is no advocate for women. She is a liar who only cares about her own political advancements, and is willing to attack the victims to get what she wants.

Trump showed great restraint in not attacking Hillary on this at the debate, and deserves credit for his restraint and temperament.


 +   6 people like this
Posted by Sam, a resident of Oak Hill,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 4:31 pm

@American :"Trump showed great restraint in not attacking Hillary on this at the debate, and deserves credit for his restraint and temperament."

LOL! That was hilarious how Donald Trump patted himself on the back and praised himself for his restraint and temperament for not bringing up Bill Clinton's philandering during the debate. Of course, a real gentleman wouldn't have brought it up to the press afterwards either. Such is the low bar that Trump and his supporters set for Trump's demonstration of his magnificent "restraint and temperament".


 +   8 people like this
Posted by Sue Thayer, a resident of Birdland,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 5:00 pm

"american:" you're embarrassing yourself, and here's why.

You castigate Clinton for lies that Politifact puts at 13% (about average for a career politician, they say), and overlook Trump, whose same score is 53% lies. That's more than four times higher, (HUGE!). It's more than half of what he says, if you're keeping score at home, which you are obviously not. Good thing you're not (as you tell us) a Trump supporter.

You remind me of the Republican who can look at 800 million votes cast with fewer than 30 instances of fraud, and say "See, I Told you there was a problem!" There is a sad personal failure of objectivity and perspective reflected there -- you just can't seem to grasp actual reality. I hope you an the D will be happy swapping nonsense in your little corner of neurosis, but please spare us.

So yes, I support Secretary Clinton, because the evidence leads me there. It is evident that you have chosen your candidate first, and only then have you gone to look for only confirming data. It's a perceptual trap, and you're sitting at the bottom of it, embarrassed, whether you know it or not.


 +   10 people like this
Posted by DKHSK, a resident of Bridle Creek,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 8:34 pm

DKHSK is a registered user.

Sue Thayer -- "So yes, I support Secretary Clinton, because the evidence leads me there."

One might ask evidence of what?

If your vote is anti-Trump, then clearly you and Sam might regale us with some evidence of Clinton accomplishments?

For months now I have been on these boards asking everyone who is pro-Clinton to describe her accomplishments and not one of you have laid out even a slightly convincing response that outlines what she's actually done. But you are very good at outlining Trumps alleged lies.

We know for a fact that Hilary has lied to the American public about her email server.
We know for a fact that Hilary, through her illegal server, put American public secrets at risk for hacking. A risk that is born out through the steady leaks of information.
We know for a fact that Hillary lied to the American public regarding her knowledge of terrorism at Benghazzi.
We know that that Hillary lied to the American public regarding being shot out by snipers.
We know that Hillary Clinton lied to the American public about being sick from heat stroke just a few short weeks ago.

Trump may lie about his own personal issues, and that isn't right. But Hillary Clinton lies about matters that are life threatening to the American public, and that is COMPLETELY different.

Sue and Sam's moral equivalencies regarding Clintons lies vs. Trumps lies aside, neither one of them can explain anything that Clinton has done that could be called a success for the American people.

Last nights debate went exactly as everyone thought. Hillary prepared like crazy, and Trump didn't. But for those who count Trump out, I think this this is a mistake. If anything, Trump has shown to be able to adapt and learn very quickly, and most people think he will prepare a little better next time.

What went largely unsaid in any of these debate threads was that it was very clear that Lester Holt steered WAY clear of anything related to immigration and Muslim refugees. He did this because he and his betters know that when this is brought up, the CLEAR MAJORITY of Americans will resonate with Trumps message. Can't have that can we?

I suspect that this will come up again and when it does, you will see quite a different result.

This debate was a tie.


 +   2 people like this
Posted by Sam, a resident of Oak Hill,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 9:29 pm

@DKHSK :"Last nights debate went exactly as everyone thought. Hillary prepared like crazy, and Trump didn't. But for those who count Trump out, I think this this is a mistake. If anything, Trump has shown to be able to adapt and learn very quickly, and most people think he will prepare a little better next time."

LOL! And whose fault was it that Trump didn't prepare for an important nationally televised Presidential debate? Oh, let me guess: Hillary's!

Just about all the kids at my daughter's elementary school know that they need to prepare before making a presentation. I wouldn't call a 70-year old man who has finally discovered that basic fact someone who "learns very quickly". In fact, I would say that such a person must be one of the slowest learners ever. Great characteristic for someone who is trying to convince all Americans to make him President.

Your inanities are amusing as always Dan.


 +   8 people like this
Posted by DKHSK, a resident of Bridle Creek,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 9:55 pm

DKHSK is a registered user.

Sam,

Ahem...the point is that even though Trump didn't prepare, the debate was still a tie.

So for the umpteenth time I will ask you again: what are Clintons past successes?

30 years in politics...there should be something?

:)

Nice playing, as usual.

Dan


 +   2 people like this
Posted by Sam, a resident of Oak Hill,
on Sep 27, 2016 at 10:54 pm

@DKHSK :"Ahem...the point is that even though Trump didn't prepare, the debate was still a tie."

LOL! Guess you didn't get the memo on the official conservative line, DKHSK. Even the writers over at the conservative National Review say that Trump was beaten by Hillary Clinton. Writer John Fund used the word "choked". Some of them accuse the moderator of "bias". You might try using that excuse or Trump's excuse of being given a "bad microphone".


 +   2 people like this
Posted by Sandy Piderit, a resident of Amador Valley High School,
on Sep 28, 2016 at 6:24 am

Sandy Piderit is a registered user.

There's not much evidence in post-debate interviewing that undecided voters were impressed with Trump during the debate.
Web Link

I will wait to see next week's polls, especially in battleground states.


 +   10 people like this
Posted by DKHSK, a resident of Bridle Creek,
on Sep 28, 2016 at 7:52 am

DKHSK is a registered user.

Sam,

Perhaps you didn't see this: Web Link

I know I know, its non-scientific, but the reality is that Trump has confounded the pundits and media with his success all election season long. They have ROUTINELY been shown that they're wrong in their prognostications.

That you continue to avoid my challenge of showing Clintons successes indicates the pathetic weakness of your responses.

Been fun.


 +   11 people like this
Posted by Citizen Payne, a resident of Danville,
on Sep 28, 2016 at 8:15 am

Citizen Payne is a registered user.

When DH can only say it was 'a tie', you know who actually won it, handily.

DH, you have the unfortunate sense of your self-importance to believe that you can assign homework to others, and, whether they take the bait and respond thoroughly or not, you will later say that they didn't. Why would Ms. Thayer play that game?

If you want to see a catalog of HRC's accomplishments, watch a tape of the Dem Convention regarding her life of service to others -- especially regarding race, and gender and children here and all over the world. Read her books, and discount them by the 13 or 15% that neutral fact-checkers have said she exaggerates. (Your guy, by contrast, can't even maintain the attention span to READ a book -- but he can lie about who wrote the book he takes credit for. I'm sorry, it's a disability -- and a disqualifying one for a political leader. But then we know how he feels about people with disabilities).

She went under cover in the 1970s at real personal risk to help integrate southern schools. She worked tirelessly as a Senator for her constituents after 9/11, and was re-elected with 67% of the vote, and took all but four counties -- most of which she'd lost in the much closer 2000 election, in a later non-Presidential year when Democrats don't generally do as well. New Yorkers, tough critics that they are, obviously felt well-served by her.

That work continued as Secretary of State -- restoring the US credibility lost by the unilateralism of the Bush years, working on deals in each of the 112 countries she visited to help empower women, standing up to the Russian bully-boy, crafting the Iran nuclear deal, heading-off an impending genocidal slaughter in Libya -- the list goes on and on -- if you're open to looking at it. But instead, you want to cherry-pick the consequence-free email teapot tempest, and try to mine the Benghazi tragedy after your friends never laid a glove on her over 11 hours of grilling. Ridiculous -- and dare I say desperate?

By contrast, your boy used his silver spoon to amass a fair-to-middling fortune as a real estate developer in New York -- a decent record, but hardly exceptional. He never did anything for anybody else (the charitable not-giving stuff is just coming out), he cheated little guys because he could (it'll cost you more to sue me than to take half what I owe you), and he cheated other creditors by serial bankruptcies where they didn't get paid, either, and he leeched-off the middle class by not paying taxes. It's no answer to say he's allowed to do so under the law, because it goes to his Values, and they matter (as does his 53-65% lying rate over the campaign, non-cherry-picked edition.

Yes, Hillary has a record -- it's a damned good one, and I'll stand with her every day. And yes, this is Cushing. What's your name?


 +   9 people like this
Posted by DKHSK, a resident of Bridle Creek,
on Sep 28, 2016 at 8:58 am

DKHSK is a registered user.

Tom,

Yet ANOTHER sock puppet, eh?

But I digress

Here was my research on Hillary: Web Link

Yes, she has a record. A record that is overwhelmingly one of failure and smoke and mirrors. And that record of failure is mostly recent, by the way.

"That work continued as Secretary of State -- restoring the US credibility lost by the unilateralism of the Bush years, working on deals in each of the 112 countries she visited to help empower women, standing up to the Russian bully-boy,"

This is a joke, right? I mean, you would have to have EXTREME cognitive dissonance to think this could be accurate. Libya? Iraq? Syria? Russia? Restoring credibility with whom? I refuse to believe that even you can be this obtuse.

And she sat for 11 hours for a testimony? Gasp! What a hero!

You forget (more likely avoid or just don't care), she lied about who was involved in Benghazi. She lied because she knew that Obama would not get elected if it was known that terrorists attacked us instead of a "unplanned protest" having to do with a video. She knew her toast was buttered and she'd never get the chance to run for elected office again if the truth came out too soon.

So, by my accounts you attempted to explain, what, three accomplishments? Two were utterly destroyed by facts easy to access via any keyboard.

And you want me to read her books?

My name is Dan, you know that. :)





 +   13 people like this
Posted by Citizen Payne, a resident of Danville,
on Sep 28, 2016 at 10:08 am

Citizen Payne is a registered user.

Thanks for the inoculation -- sometimes I forget you're in this for the self-gratification, which makes any interaction an unproductive waste of everybody else's time. Your preference to keep your last name hidden makes sense -- the rest of your post, not so much.


 +   6 people like this
Posted by hoops, a resident of Mohr Park,
on Sep 28, 2016 at 11:00 am

hoops is a registered user.

I understand why people do not want Hillary,but Trump?I cannot even say anymore about the man except this country really is in trouble if about half the voters consider him fit to become the most powerful person on earth.That really,honestly depresses me.Wow.


 +   2 people like this
Posted by KSHKD, a resident of San Ramon,
on Sep 28, 2016 at 12:07 pm

KSHKD is a registered user.

wow, if not Hillary, then who. Trump? Defend him, his antics, his mouth, lack of tax returns. Zero experience. Please, we await the Trump defense.




 +   7 people like this
Posted by Citizen Payne, a resident of Danville,
on Sep 28, 2016 at 12:10 pm

Citizen Payne is a registered user.

Even the Arizona Republic? Yes, even the Arizona Republic endorses Clinton. Web Link

" ... Clinton knows how to compromise and to lead with intelligence, decorum and perspective. She has a record of public service as First Lady, senator and secretary of state.

She has withstood decades of scrutiny so intense it would wither most politicians. The vehemence of some of the anti-Clinton attacks strains credulity.

Trump hasn't even let the American people scrutinize his tax returns, which could help the nation judge his claims of business acumen. ... "

First time for a Democrat in the newspaper's history. How 'bout that?


 +   3 people like this
Posted by rosalindr, a resident of San Ramon,
on Sep 28, 2016 at 12:25 pm

rosalindr is a registered user.

I've removed my snarky comment about Trump being an orange alien. Gina closed the discussion, not me, but I think everyone has had a chance to say which side they are for or against. So I am leaving the comments closed. I'm sure we will all have more opportunities to weigh in on the pros and cons of Hillary vs. Trump and of course in the big one on November 8th.


Sorry, but further commenting on this topic has been closed.

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