NRA's Response to Sandy Hook Massacre: Armed Guards? State, National, International, posted by Sam, a resident of the Oak Hill neighborhood, on Dec 22, 2012 at 10:58 am
NRA chief Wayne Lapierre recently held a news conference in which he proposed armed guards in all schools to prevent further gun massacres. Now in the movies the "good guy" always cleanly takes out the armed bad guy even in the middle of an area crowded with people. But what about real life situations? Columbine High School had an armed guard on duty on its campus grounds on the day of the shootings who traded shots with one of the shooters but was unable to prevent the massacre. Is NRA chief Wayne Lapierre being realistic, or has he been watching too many movies of "good guys" triumphing over "bad guys"?
Here's the perspective of a US Special Forces soldier on the NRA's solution:
In the immediate aftermath of the Sandy Hook massacre, a friend of mine who was a longtime Special Forces operator before he was wounded in Afghanistan summarized in an online posting the general position of the NRA and its supporters: “If everyone had a gun, people would be able to kill a shooter before he caused too much mayhem.”
The operator also offered a highly skilled and experienced good guy’s view of this notion:
“This, simply put, is bullshit,” he wrote. “There are people who train night and day to be good at shooting bad guys in situations where there are innocents in close proximity and even those people screw up because a gunfight is not a shooting range. People are dying and screaming and there is blood and all that silly shit you ‘think’ you’re going to do goes right out the window when you are in that crazy environment.”
He further tendered his opinion of the high-capacity magazines that the NRA has fought so hard to keep on the market.
“There is no reason for a noncombatant citizen of our country to have a weapon that can shoot 30 rounds of ammunition. I have been in many gunfights in ‘bona fide’ war-zones and only a few times did I have to use that many bullets. If you are a hunter or a sports shooter, you don’t need a 30-round magazine to do either of those things.”
Posted by hoops, a resident of the Mohr Park neighborhood, on Dec 22, 2012 at 5:11 pm
The schools would be safer from an attacker with an armed guard.They would be even safer with 2 special forces at every school.They would be safer yet with 5 marines posted at every school.
How about shopping malls,churches and restaurants?This could solve our unemployment problem.Set up some training programs and we can have armed guards on every street corner!
I am really starting to worry about the future of our country with so many people in elected office that have zero ability to be rational and compromise on anything along with the idiots in society that think they need and have a right to assault rifles.When our founding fathers who they all worship wrote the second amendment they had muskets not rapid fire killing machines, but it is too difficult for many to grasp the difference between then and now.Give me a break.
Posted by Realist, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 23, 2012 at 12:13 am
Hoops, the government ALSO has muskets in 1700s. THE people were equal to the government. So the government was not / is not greater than the governed.
I don't believe anybody said anything about a guard. Just that some adult teacher or admin or both, any who are properly trained and wants to defend themselves and others, has the right the shoot the bad guy in the shoulder or gut and distract & harm the perp allowing others to call or hide, most of all not get to 20 kids. The perp should be kept guessing....like the air marshalls on planes... hearby to prevent a problem from turning into a mass slaughter. How good it would have been if there were undercover in plain clothes in the planes on 9-11, maybe one shooting, but no mass problme. The plain clothes person could be any school personnel, who is trained. Any adult should be free to defend themselves....not a sitting duck. Every large building in every large city has had paid guards for several decades, since that 55 California street office employee who went wacko. Laws are for law abiding people, not mentally ill or law breakers. There is NO way to fix the mentally ill (mind altering prescriptions) or law BREAKER issues. There are other issues than guns that cannot be controlled, i.e. mental illness, prescribed drugs, etc.
Posted by hoops, a resident of the Mohr Park neighborhood, on Dec 23, 2012 at 9:37 am
The government had muskets too so the people and the government were equal in the 1700's?The govt has missles and drones and F16's today so are the people equal because they have an assault rifle?With all do respect that is a ridiculous statemant
You cannot prevent an incident like Sandy Hook unless you get lucky.We have how many tens of thousands of schools and there have been how many shootings in our history??Now we over react and want to arm everyone to stop a potential what, 1 in a million occurance from happening?
Ban the weapons and create stiff penalties for anyone owning one and you at least reduce the risk of another Sandy Hook as well as many other incidents.THERE IS NO REASON to own that type of weapon and that cannot be disputed by a rational human being.
Unfortunately we live in a dangerous world and sometimes a nut is going to do something horrible,but you cannot arm people in all public places and think that the world is now safe.
Even if you had a school employee that had a firearm,what are the odds that he would be able to do anything to stop a Sandy Hook.Say Mr.Jones is a teacher and is in his classroom and hears shots being fired somewhere on campus.He will be reacting long after people are killed and the odds of him at that point overtaking a heavily armed attacker are what?We are not talking a green beret but a lightly trained guy with a pistol trying to take out someone with an assault rifle.It is ridiculous.
Posted by Realist, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 24, 2012 at 12:22 am
Any school district that doesn't want to have a guard doesn't need to. Maybe there are 1 or 2 trained in the administration who would want to exercise their right to have a gun to protect self and others....,.like all office buildings.
It would simply be a tool to slow down the killer,delay, stall, many fewer deaths.
Don't be such a smart ass idiot. There is NO solution. Half of our country have arms. There are some steps that could employ.
Hoops, interesting you admit it's a potentional one in a million situation. You say ban the weapons...sort of like the drug ban, and the extremely costly, worhtless 'war on drugs', which is law enforcement current focus, although just feeble attempts and wasted $$.
Then we could add worthless, costly, wasted 'war on gun'. You say ban,...does that include illegal search and seizure of and in private homes ??? tsk, tsk, not very wise.
Doing something stupid, iw worse than doing nothing.
Posted by Libertarian Capitalist, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 24, 2012 at 9:13 am
The way I see it, if individuals are prohibited from arming themselves with automatic and semiautomatic weapons, then how am I do defend my family from foreign invaders? What happens if Canada declares war on the US? What happens if ACORN reassembles and decides to take over this country? They stole the last two elections for Obama. What's to prevent them from marching into my community and forcing us into submission with their shotguns and barettas with silencers? What happens if the government decides to invade all of our households for purposes of, who knows, inspecting us for anti-Obama literature? See what I mean? It's a slippery slope. And no one has mentioned the likelihood of alien invasions. Am I to allow my family to submit to Martians with ray-guns? Wake up, America. We'd be nowhere without our automatic weapons. They are our right, and we can make a profit from them. End of story.
Posted by hoops, a resident of the Mohr Park neighborhood, on Dec 24, 2012 at 10:39 am
The U.S has 5% of the worlds population and 50% of it's guns.Look at the homicide rates in Japan,England,Australia and all the countries that have strict gun laws.The simple reason we have so many deaths is because we have so many guns.End of story.There is no argument,That is a FACT.
And by the way,these countries have just as many mentally ill people and violent video games.It is access.Pure and simple and any stupid argument about the right to bear assault rifles does not change that.
Posted by Realist, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 24, 2012 at 12:10 pm
You are neither a real Libertarian nor capitalist, You're the sarcastic wacko who kept pestering every comment on every thread last year. So sorry you're back, adding absolutely zero to the conversation.
You just trash all other opinions offering both short and long term solutions, without you offering any realistic , pragmatic,potential possibilities.
You'd just send storm troopers to search all homes looking for weapons to confiscate, as a solution, and wasting paper writing unenforceable bans. Get at least one foot in the real world and
Posted by Libertarian Capitalist, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 24, 2012 at 12:34 pm
In other words, since you didn't have a response when you posted as lib is a disease, you've now decided to post as realist. I'm so ashamed. But we all are still wondering what guns you're buying to resist the likes of Obama and all the other tyrants you've so eloquently discussed in the past. Please edify us. We hang on every one of your words.
Posted by Save Lives, Not Stupid Ideas, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 24, 2012 at 12:41 pm
If a trained and armed professional was present at the school in Connecticut, many of those children and adults that were killed would be alive today.
Credibility is lacking in the leadership of our country that gave automatic weapons to criminals (Fast and Furious) that resulted in many Mexican lives lost, not to mention the U.S. Border Guard who was killed.
Although the leftist media refuses to publish the data, the number of lives saved by people who have the means to defend themselves and their friends and family far outnumbers those lost through the horrible acts of violence such as the recent one in Connecticut.
Posted by Realist, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 24, 2012 at 2:35 pm
FYI Libertarian capitalist(neither), in the past I've made the assumption that Lib disease is TP, which I am not. I know in the past, you have had coversations with yourself....I have never. Look around Realist is on other threads. You know nothing about anything you speak.
You have fantasies for what live would be like on your perfect cloud. However, most of those fantasies can not happen in the real world.
Maggie, I'm not aware of any mass shootings being with "military grade weapons"". Sandy was not. It and the SOME of the others were military 'STYLE',,,meaning 'looks' like, but the trigger has to be pulled for EACH shot. I can't really blame you for that blunder, since you get your false info from msnbc flame throwers and they try to 'fan' with scary words...maybe they are too ignorant, since they 'talk' rather than listen. Military assult is 'different'.
Listen to the word 'style'not function next time, less emphasis on military. Otherwise, we'll have to call you Misinformation Maggie!
Va Tech was with handguns, which are in every block in US.
Posted by Realist, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 24, 2012 at 2:46 pm
Maggie and Lib Cap, you really should have watched Sound of Music, last night. Hitler, elected by the brilliant voters choice, moved in, took over freedoms, people were helpless, except those few who reacted quickly and escaped over the alps.
Our lives in US could be temporary, if you start tossing our freedoms, and spitting on our founders. There are adjustments if we think and discuss. Until then, districts that 'want' to, could have 1 or 2, maybe a guard, plus an administrator who's trained in defense....short term, and in the long run.
Posted by Sam, a resident of the Oak Hill neighborhood, on Dec 24, 2012 at 3:10 pm
Realist wrote: "Maggie, I'm not aware of any mass shootings being with "military grade weapons"". Sandy was not. It and the SOME of the others were military 'STYLE',,,meaning 'looks' like, but the trigger has to be pulled for EACH shot. I can't really blame you for that blunder, since you get your false info from msnbc flame throwers and they try to 'fan' with scary words...maybe they are too ignorant, since they 'talk' rather than listen. Military assult is 'different'."
Really, "Realist", Maggie had a valid points and instead of addressing them you simply resorted to ridicule. The "Bushmaster" weapon used at the Sandy Hook massacre didn't simply "look like" a military weapon. Essentially, it was as every bit as deadly as a real military weapon used by our armed forces (thanks to the demand by gun enthusiasts for "authenticity") with the exception of the fact that it cannot fire in the "full automatic" mode. But soldiers often don't even use the full automatic mode in firefights. As I understand, they often fire in a semi-automatic mode with bursts of three rounds, similar to the mode used by the Sandy Hook shooter. But you knew that, right?
BTW, good job at ducking out from the point made by Maggie that Columbine HS had armed guards on the day of their shooting massacre.
Posted by Libertarian Capitalist, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 24, 2012 at 4:27 pm
So, you get your history from Sound of Music, eh? I like the part about the escapees going over the alps, blowing their horns and yodelling. Change your name all you desire, the stench coming off your varied 'contributions' is unmistakable.
Posted by Daniel Bradford, a resident of another community, on Dec 24, 2012 at 9:44 pm
Just as in wake of the attempted assassination of Congresswoman Giffords and the Aurora, Colorado theatre gun murders, gun nuts are buying up the shooter's weapon as fast as the gun makers can turn them off the assembly line. The sales are driven in part by sick fascination with owning a murder weapon and also from fear that the Congress will actually do the sensible thing and ban or restrict these weapons.
By the way, the Bushmaster is called the Bushmaster ACR (Adaptive Combat Rifle). It's adaptive because you can change out the barrel for a different caliber.
According to the manufacturer of the Bushmaster ACR, Magpul Industries, the rate of fire is estimated to be in the range of 600-800 rpm (depending on which caliber of barrel is attached to the weapon).
600 to 800 bullets per minute. This is not a weapon for hunting animals. This is not a weapon for self-defense. This is a weapon for military use, a device that has one purpose: killing a whole lot of people really fast.
A sensible country, with a national legislature not corrupted by the power and money of the gun manufacturers (the NRA is just a front for the gun manufacturers, after all), would have acted long ago to keep such weapons out of civilian hands. I only hope that the Sandy Hook Massacre is the turning point in this debate.
By the way, the 2nd Amendment has the phrase: "a well-regulated militia...."
Private individuals are not a member of a "well-regulated militia." The 2nd Amendment does not guarantee unrestricted private gun ownership and the Founders never intended it as such.
The true history of the Second Amendment is that James Madison introduced it to assuage the fears of Southern slave-owning whites that they would not have local well-armed militias to suppress slave rebellions, which were a lot more frequent than our high school history textbooks have led us to believe.
By the way, there was an armed guard on duty at Columbine High. The guard didn't stop the massacre. And the next NRA fantasy is....?
Posted by Arroyo, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 25, 2012 at 6:04 pm
Libertarain capitalist has his diseased head in the sand. Read a little bit of history and you'll learn about how the Nazis chased the Swiss across the Alps. But then your not really interested in history or facts. Just trying to lord over everyone with elitist pontefecations.