Town Square

Post a New Topic

Ban on Paper and Plastic starts on Tuesday

Original post made by Long Time Resident on Dec 27, 2012

Is Dublin adopting the ban on paper and plastic shopping bags starting the first of the year? I ask that because if they are not, I am moving my business across the freeway.

Comments (37)

Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Dec 27, 2012 at 8:29 am

Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.

Appears to be Alameda County (for one): Web Link


Posted by Roseann Edge, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 27, 2012 at 8:47 am

Dublin and Pleasanton and all of Alameda County. I'm curious-is it only bags at the checkout counters or will they also ban plastic produce bags and deli bags? I think it should be all plastic.


Posted by liberalism is a disease, a resident of Birdland
on Dec 27, 2012 at 8:50 am

liberalism is a disease is a registered user.

Gotta love those liberal, enviro-nazi types micromanaging and intruding on every part of our lives. This scheme is similar the 'recycle' program for glass bottles that does nothing but drive up the price of goods across all income levels. What's next, bring your own bottle for refill at the local brewery? More income redistribution brought to you by our appointed taxing authority under the guise of saving the environment.
Don't forget to bring your grungy old bags into the store to avoid this scheme....like that'll happen.


Posted by liberalism is a disease, a resident of Birdland
on Dec 27, 2012 at 8:52 am

liberalism is a disease is a registered user.

roseann, bring your own fish wrappers into the store and don't presume the rest of us are as unsanitary as you.


Posted by We care, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 27, 2012 at 8:57 am

To Long Time Resident, We need our Pleasanton businesses to be socially responsible, and, unless I misunderstand your post, you have just implied that you would prefer to move your business to Dublin rather than do your part to help our environment. A little research online before posting your question would have shown you that you will need to relocate outside of Alameda County to achieve your objective. Please reconsider your perspective and become part of the solution. I, for one, don't mind bringing my own reusable bags into stores. In fact, our family has been doing this for years. We need good businesses in Pleasanton. They provide jobs and help support the health of our community. And now they will help reduce waste in our environment.


Posted by Daniel Bradford, a resident of another community
on Dec 27, 2012 at 9:07 am

Plastic and paper bags aren't banned: "The Alameda County Waste Management Authority (StopWaste.org) adopted its ordinance banning plastic bags and placing a 10 cent price requirement on paper and reusable bags in January of 2012. It is effective on January 1, 2013 in unincorporated Alameda County as well as its 14 incorporated cities."

You just have to pay 10 cents a bag if you don't bring your own.

Trader Joes and Safeway have been providing very sturdy, reusable bags for years for their customers. They sell the bags at a subsidized price (below cost). The Trader Joes bags in particular are excellent. I use the TJ bags and have for many years--they have shown only a little bit of wear after year after year of use. 99 cents for a bag, and at 10 cents a bag for paper/plastic means that the TJ bags pay for themselves in a few shopping trips.

This is a good move for the environment and isn't really an inconvenience. If you can plan to go to the store and make a shopping list, surely you're organized enough to remember to take your reusable shopping bags with you?


Posted by Jim, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 27, 2012 at 9:13 am

After reading the web site, most stores are exempt from the bag ban. It mainly focuses on grocery stores and stores that sell packaged food.


Posted by Tom, a resident of Old Towne
on Dec 27, 2012 at 9:16 am

My wife loves the reusable shopping bags. She always keeps several in her car. Unfortunately, on the infrequent times that I do the shopping, I forget to bring the bags. So, I end up buying more. We now have about 20 reusable bags from Trader Joe's. There are a number of designs from the past several years. To lessen her wrath, I keep telling my wife that they're collectible and will be worth money some day. She's not buying that story...


Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Dec 27, 2012 at 9:18 am

Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.

Our family has been using heavy duty, washable canvas bags and washable mesh produce bags for quite some time now. Prices are reasonable and there is a larger variety available. Add up all the nickel (?) charges for paper bags I've seen and the initial cost for recyclable bags makes sense. I believe there was a bill proposed in December to move to banning plastic bags statewide (this has been attempted before and failed).


Posted by Jim, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 27, 2012 at 9:22 am

"All grocery stores, mini-marts, convenience stores, liquor stores, other stores and pharmacies selling packaged food and/ or alcohol are affected."


Web Link


Posted by Dave, a resident of Birdland
on Dec 27, 2012 at 9:54 am

Jim,
Thanks for the informative link. I was not aware that this ban included mini-marts, convenience stores, liquor stores, other stores and pharmacies selling packaged food. Good information.


Posted by me, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 27, 2012 at 9:56 am

Roseann
It appears that the meat, produce and deli bags are not affected.


Single-Use Carryout Bags d
not include bags that are integral to the packaging of the product, or bags without
handles provided to the Customer (i) to transport produce, bulk food or meat from
produce, bulk food or meat department within a Store to the point of sale, (ii) to
hold prescription medication dispensed from a pharmacy, or (iii) to segregate food
merchandise that could damage or contaminate other food or merchandise when
placed together in a Reusable Bag or Recycled Paper Bag.


Posted by jaca, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 27, 2012 at 10:51 am

no one likes changes, however we always get used to them.


Posted by Democrats Know Best How to Spend Your Money, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 27, 2012 at 11:08 am

You and your neighbors elected the Democrat politicians that created this law and many more such intrusive laws. Being good stewards of our planet's resources is something that many of us work at in lots of areas of our lives. Having a bunch of Democrat politicians mandate how we do this is the kind of mob rule that our nation's founders tried to prevent through the Bill of Rights.


Posted by Daniel Bradford, a resident of another community
on Dec 27, 2012 at 11:39 am

Folks: Have you not read about The Great Pacific Garbage Patch?

"The size of the patch is unknown, as large items readily visible from a boat deck are uncommon. Most debris consists of small plastic particles suspended at or just below the surface, making it impossible to detect by aircraft or satellite. Instead, the size of the patch is determined by sampling. Estimates of size range from 700,000 square kilometres (270,000 sq mi) to more than 15,000,000 square kilometres (5,800,000 sq mi) (0.41% to 8.1% of the size of the Pacific Ocean), or, in some media reports, up to "twice the size of the continental United States"."

Web Link

We're killing the oceans. Kill the oceans = kill the Earth's ability to sustain us humans.

Calling people Nazis because they want to charge you a dime if you forget your reusable grocery bag? Get a grip.


Posted by Pleasanton Neighbor, a resident of Foothill High School
on Dec 27, 2012 at 1:28 pm

Hello There,

I did not vote democratic but will use recycled bags. I have no problem with trying to help this old Earth and this is an easy way to do something.

To me what would be even more effective is if we banned throw-away plastic water bottles. Let's go back to glass, and use the hard plastic or metal recycled bottles for sporting events. If we went back to glass we could add jobs because there are many shuttered glass plants to could very easily be re-opened in this country.

But I suppose wanting to add jobs is considered socialistic by some folks making comments above.


Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Dec 27, 2012 at 3:46 pm

Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.

Would there be a net gain in jobs if those employed at plastic bottle manufacturers lose their jobs? There is also the topic of energy and transportation used to recycle one over the other. There are trade offs to consider. I'm not advocating for plastic; I just don't think it's simple.


Posted by liberalism is a disease, a resident of Birdland
on Dec 27, 2012 at 4:04 pm

liberalism is a disease is a registered user.

Daniel, this tax will do nothing to alleviate your Patch. It just punishes people who will continue to use bags to carry their goods. Are you really thinking this is an altruistic effort to save the planet from baggies, instead of just another tax to punish consumers? You people as so naive...no wonder you like Dem rule. Start thinking for yourselves and quit following the lemmings.....


Posted by CoCo Here I Go, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 27, 2012 at 6:53 pm

There are some nice grocery stores in Contra Costa County such as in Danville and San Ramon.

I use the paper bags for various other uses once I bring them home. I'll be shopping in San Ramon and Danville for groceries from now on.


Posted by A Neighbor, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 27, 2012 at 7:45 pm

Santa Clara county has managed to fully transition to reusable bags, and with a larger and much more diverse population. In fact, even department stores in that county will be operating under similar rules in the new year.

We Care put it well: become part of the solution.


Posted by Deborah, a resident of Ruby Hill
on Dec 27, 2012 at 7:50 pm

Oh my gosh, so many of you are so stupid. Plastic bags are a huge issue. They're a waste of resources. They blow all over getting stuck in cars and can potentially cause auto accidents. Wildlife choke on them. Kids choke on them. It is not difficult to either re use bags you own, or pick up a few reusable canvas bags and wash them after you go shopping. Most women already carry purses with them everywhere, what is so difficult about a canvas bag? Shove it in your trunk and call it done. IT's not rocket science. If you don't like it, you can move to Saudi Arabia, it's nirvana for you nimrods who think getting rid of plastic bags is anything similar to Nazism.


Posted by Deborah, a resident of Ruby Hill
on Dec 27, 2012 at 8:02 pm

@ liberalism is a disease:

I know facts and logic are really hard for Tea Party imbeciles like yourself, but you only pay for bags if you don't already have some or some kind of carrying device. People have been giving out free reusable bags for years. You can reuse plastic or paper bags you have, or you could use a backpack or tote bag for your groceries. No one is making you buy anything. It's not our fault you're lacking in the common sense department and never thought about how much easier it is to have your own bags. They're sturdier than plastic or paper bags most of the time anyways. But again, Saudi Arabia or Somalia await if you feel Alameda County is too democratic!


Posted by No More food scrap recycling, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 28, 2012 at 5:44 am

A while back the garbage company raised our prices, so that we could start doing the recycling for them. That would help pay for the extra truck that now comes once a week for the blue cans. We were asked to start putting vegetable scraps in a paper bag and place it in the green can with the garden waste.

I have been using the grocery store paper bags for that purpose, but apparently come next week I will have to stop doing that, since I will no longer have paper bags brought in from the grocery stores, and I'll be damned if I will pay a penny to buy paper bags to recycle, on top of the garbage bill hike that has already happened.

I understand the ban on plastic bags, but paper should not have been banned.


Posted by Pleasanton Neighbor, a resident of Foothill High School
on Dec 28, 2012 at 8:52 am

To Kathleen Ruegsegger,

You are correct in that most things are never as simple as they seem. However, my reasoning for going away from plastic bottles is 1.) they are made from oil which is purchased from the Middle East (who hates us) and 2.) they are made overseas. My thinking is that we made the glass bottles here and go back to recycling them like they did when I was a kid.

A few more jobs for the USA.

Thank you


Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Dec 28, 2012 at 10:14 am

Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.

Thank you PN. Do you have a link for where bottles used in the US are made outside the US? I found one link that shows 376 US manufacturers. Web Link I also found this link on where we import petroleum from: Web Link And this on how much petroleum is used to make plastics: Web Link

Even with those links, it presents an incomplete picture. I still don't know that we can predict a net gain in jobs. I would, however, agree there are individuals, groups, governments in the Middle East who don't like Americans as a whole. That would be true of a lot of countries.

There are plenty of sites covering the impact of plastics on the environment--all pretty scary. One suggested using only landfills rather than the oceans. In the meantime, we support efforts like the banning of plastic bags. There are plenty or reasonable substitutes.

@No More: we tried using the biodegradable baggies for scraps, but they degrade before you get them to the can. Now we just use a paper towel while we prep and throw it and the scraps into the green bin.


Posted by Elizabeth, a resident of Mohr Park
on Dec 28, 2012 at 10:27 am

There's a really good post on another thread about the reasoning behind the plastic ban. Goes back to a Sierra Club initiative that was passed years ago: Web Link


Posted by Enough is Enough! , a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 28, 2012 at 3:22 pm

Enough is enough... we have enough regulations telling us what to do and how to act... In this case, let's have education that educate the idiots we don't know what's best... We don't need more 'tell me what I need to do...!' For those who don't know, all those recycling bags are made of plastic and these are even more dangerous to the health of our beloved wild life! They are even more stronger than thst thin plastic bags.. also, if we don't wash, more people will get sick and get salmonella and e-colli from contaminated bags!!!! Let's have a law that tells us we must wash our bags before reuse.. That will be useful!

What do we do when we buy stuff from the Mall?


Posted by Ruby hills dufus, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 28, 2012 at 8:49 pm

Deborah, you elitists must be really passionate about this bag tax, hence the juvenile name calling (stupid, imbecile, etc.) .
Maybe when you grow up and have to get a real job ( as opposed to living off your husband's accomplishments) you'll realize this latest attempt at social engineering costs lower and middle class consumers disproportionately.
Your further disparaging of middle eastern countries assumes that none of them are democratic. Egypt would love to have a Western beeyatch like you.


Posted by Camel Dumps, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 29, 2012 at 10:32 am

May a thousand camels dump on the lawns of each and every enviro-Nazi. We're moving out of California in two years, and can't wait to get out. We just hope the state doesn't collapse before we get the heck out of here.


Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Dec 29, 2012 at 3:07 pm

Camel is waaaaaaaaaaay too funny. Where would like me to send the dump for your din-din? tee hee hee...


Posted by Bob, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 30, 2012 at 6:02 am

This has been said before by others and I'm going to say it again.

The announced justification for this action by the county is to prevent plastic bags from being discarded on the ground and winding up in the waterways and eventually in the Bay.

This is a problem, a real problem. However, the solution decided upon by the County is nothing more than an environmentalist punishment imposed upon the public at large.

I believe a better analysis should have been made, and a more logical solution adopted to address this problem.

The county board's decision lacks the critical thinking necessary to address not only the problem, but more importantly to balance and protect the needs of the people as a whole.

Here's how is sums up for me:

OBSERVATION: Plastic bags are being found in the Bay and other waterways within the county.

PROBABLE CAUSE: Plastic bags are being discarded by individuals as litter upon the ground.

OBSERVABLE RESULT: Natural processes, such as weather, allow undesired litter to work its way into the drainage systems and waterways that empty into the Bay.

DESIRED OUTCOME: Prevent / Reduce undesired litter within waterways and the Bay.

SOLUTION: If you have a problem with a group of people, then address that group directly to solve the problem. There are existing anti-litter ordinances(s) to tackle this problem. Enforce them and the problem will be addressed directly with the people causing the problem.


Today, the all too frequently applied solution skips the critical thinking phase and jumps right into the middle of a current populist fix. We allow an emotional, albeit popular, action to be taken in place of a more logical, thought through sensible approach.

The county's solution to the problem is to punish the public at large, for the actions of a few, by forcing retail merchants to charge people for a plastic bag.

This issue goes even further. Not only must the retailer charge for the bag (paper or plastic), they are prohibited from absorbing the charge and giving the bag for free. The retailer is required to insure that a customer is made aware of the fact that they are being charged for the bag, and they must make this an identified separate charge in the register.

This is absurd. Once again we have social engineering through legislation, geared to reform societal thinking to comply with a particular viewpoint. It does not matter if the viewpoint is good, or bad. It is our own legislative process being used against us that is the objection.

Any rule, regulation, ordinance or law, passed by our representatives, should meet the test of majority benefit and minimal negative impact upon the people as a whole.

In this case the solution met the test of majority benefit, in that a majority of people in the county will benefit from a cleaner less littered environment. However it failed the minimum impact test as it applies penalties upon everyone, and not just the specific people throwing their trash on the ground.

And this leads me to conclude that the people who throw their trash on the ground today will simply continue to throw their trash on the ground tomorrow. For there is no specific targeted plan to address the littering problem. The people as a whole will now have to pay a price due to the actions of a few that our representatives have failed to address properly.

I don't know why we put up with representatives who have their own grandiose "Perfect Society" agendas that they want to apply to the rest of us. I for one will remember this at the next election.


Posted by I'm with Bob, a resident of Las Positas Garden Homes
on Dec 30, 2012 at 6:49 am

Couldn't agree more--we need to have our police monitor any citizens who shop for groceries and tail them all as they leave the stores, just to make sure they don't litter with their plastic bags. If that's too expensive, we should put a unique tracking device into each separate shopping bag and fingerprint shoppers so that we can address the problem directly with the perps responsible. If all else fails, satellite surveillance backed up with drone patrols should do the trick. I'm quite sure each of these solutions would be far more reasonable, enforceable, and cheaper than a ten cent bag tax to pay for cleanup.


Posted by No liberal, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 30, 2012 at 10:19 am

Bob, outstanding post. Well thought out and obviously struck a cord with at least one sarcastic enviro lemming, who typically ridicule those citizens against social engineering and unnecessary income confiscation.
Can't wait for the next set of regulations that will further punish the majority of stewards of our local environment. Socialism at its worst, following the example of our dear leader.


Posted by Bob, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 30, 2012 at 10:22 am

Nice come back. Who ever you are. You should feel good about that one. A real 'Gotcha'. Truly, another well informed, and well intentioned I'm sure, member of society.

Why do you hide in the facelessness of the on-line post without giving your name? Perhaps you feel more secure making such remarks only while hiding behind a mask? There actually are names for people who hide like this, but it would be bad form to use one here. So we'll move on.

Yes, nice come back, except, of course for the failure to understand the ordinance. Specifically, this 10-cent charge pays for nothing and offsets no cost whatsoever.

The charge is not considered a Tax. It would have required a vote by the people to establish a new tax. This is considered a 'nuisance charge', and therefore did not require a vote of the people.

It is a requirement for the merchant to specifically charge this fee. It is a requirement for the merchant to inform the purchaser that they will be charged the fee (either by signage or verbally). It is prohibited for the merchant to include the fee in the product price and may not in any other way hide from the customer this new charge. It is a requirement for the merchant to maintain records to prove that the fee was charged, how much was collected, and that it was actually paid for by the customer.

However the money collected by the retailer does not go to the county or the city. This charge is not collected by any agency. The merchant retains it.

The bag fee does not pay for trash cleanup or any other action or operation conducted by the county or city.

The approach here is like the coach punishing the whole squad for the action of one member. That does work in small groups where everyone knows who that one person is. But it does not work beyond that small group.

This is simply a punishment upon the people as a whole because of the selfish actions of a few. The actions of people, who without thinking and without care, throw trash on the ground. And they do so with impunity. But perhaps their feeling towards this is understandable. After all when people like you leave the impression that there is just no point to enforce the anti-littering laws, then why bother following them.


Posted by I'm with Bob, a resident of Las Positas Garden Homes
on Dec 30, 2012 at 10:35 am

I don't know if that last post was directed at me or not, but I think you misunderstood me. I totally agree with you. Maybe you think my suggestions for enforcement are unrealistic? Please tell me how YOU envision enforcing anti-littering laws. Please be specific, so that I can learn from you.

Also, I didn't know that full disclosure was necessary in a comment on plastic bags. My name is Tom. Is my post legitimate now?


Posted by Not bob, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 30, 2012 at 8:39 pm

Maybe you think my suggestions for enforcement are unrealistic? Please tell me how YOU envision enforcing gun laws. Please be specific, so that I can learn from you.



Posted by Fran, a resident of Avignon
on Jan 5, 2013 at 9:58 pm

Camel, take me with you.


If you were a member and logged in you could track comments from this story.

Post a comment

Posting an item on Town Square is simple and requires no registration. Just complete this form and hit "submit" and your topic will appear online. Please be respectful and truthful in your postings so Town Square will continue to be a thoughtful gathering place for sharing community information and opinion. All postings are subject to our TERMS OF USE, and may be deleted if deemed inappropriate by our staff.

We prefer that you use your real name, but you may use any "member" name you wish.

Name: *

Select your neighborhood or school community: *

Comment: *

Verification code: *
Enter the verification code exactly as shown, using capital and lowercase letters, in the multi-colored box.

*Required Fields

David Brooks at his Best and Worst
By Tom Cushing | 11 comments | 953 views

Anti-fracking folks rail against railroads
By Tim Hunt | 34 comments | 884 views

Spedowfski Announces run for Livermore City Council
By Roz Rogoff | 1 comment | 610 views