Posted by Will get thrown out of court, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 17, 2011 at 5:36 pm
Anonymous tips from anonymous email accounts set up to 'tip' people off do not constitute probable cause to make an arrest. The Supreme Court is clear on that.
This will cause the charges to be dropped and then the District and perhaps the city will get sued once again for civil rights violations for violating students' 4th amendment rights and making an arrest without sufficient probable cause.
Posted by facto, a resident of the Grey Eagle Estates neighborhood, on Dec 17, 2011 at 8:30 pm
As "Schools are different" posted above you need to read case law New Jersey v TLO. This case law states schools and school administrators are only required to have REASONABLE SUSPICION not PROBABLE CAUSE to search. A anonymous tip is enough reasonable suspicion to conduct a search. I'm guessing the search resulted in probable cause to make an arrest, with no warrant needed. Shoud know the difference between the two before you post opinions on the topic
Posted by zynga, a resident of the Oak Hill neighborhood, on Dec 17, 2011 at 10:29 pm
I wonder if the parents of the 14 children killed in the Columbine massacre agree with your opinion of violating kids 4th amendment rights?? I'll have my kids rights violated anytime to assure they are safe and secure at school.
Posted by Stacey, a resident of the Amberwood/Wood Meadows neighborhood, on Dec 17, 2011 at 10:46 pm Stacey is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
The tragedy at Columbine was terrible, but what does it have to do with reasonable suspicion and searches? Are you saying that dressing up a certain way constitutes a reasonable suspicion to be searched?
Posted by Stacey, a resident of the Amberwood/Wood Meadows neighborhood, on Dec 17, 2011 at 10:54 pm Stacey is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
Hrm, the only reason you would want your child's rights violated is because you assume your child would never get into such trouble. If you were the parent of the children in this article who got arrested, you'd want to make sure no rights were violated.
Posted by Resident, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 17, 2011 at 11:20 pm
I am not sure if New Jeersey v TLO would apply to the anonymous tip situation. This is what the court said in TLO:
"When the vice-principal was searching for the cigarettes, the
drug-related evidence was in plain view. Plain view is an exception
to the warrant requirement of the 4th Amendment. Thus, the reasonable
search for cigarettes led to some of the drug related material being
discovered, which justified a further search (including the zippered
compartments inside the bag) resulting in the discovery of the
cigarettes and other evidence including a small bag of marijuana and
cigarette rolling papers."
Basically, a student was caught smoking but denied it. A reasonable suspicion to search for the cigarettes gave the viceprincipal the right to search her purse for cigarettes. During that search, drugs were found and further search could be done without a warrant because of the plain view exception.
The reasonable suspicion is justified because a teacher saw the girl smoking and yet the girl denied it. There was a credible person accusing the girl of breaking school rules. A teacher is an authority figure that administrators rely on, so her word was sufficient. That was reasonable suspicion to search for cigarettes in the girl's purse.
The anonymous tip was just that: a tip. I do not think that is reasonable suspicion since the credibility of the person giving the tip was unknown given the anonymous nature of the tip. I think there was a need for a warrant, and I think the students have a good case in court if indeed the administration went ahead with the search without obtaining a warrant first.
Imagine if everyone can be searched just because someone called the police with a tip. No, that would get ugly if all of us could be searched just because a neighbor called in a "tip." A warrant would be needed.
In TLO, if instead of the teacher seeing the girl smoking, there had been some anonymous tip, I think the outcome of the case and the opinion of the court would have been much different.
Posted by Resident, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 17, 2011 at 11:30 pm
This is important (from TLO):
"Therefore, her possession of any cigarettes was relevant to whether or not she was being truthful, and since she had been caught in the bathroom and taken directly to the office, it was reasonable to assume she had the cigarettes in her purse"
The student was caught smoking in the bathroom and taken straight to the office and the search was done. There was reasonable suspicion because the teacher saw the student smoking.
We do not know the circumstances for the search of the 3 students at Amador, but if the search was done just based on the anonymous tip without anything else, I think these students are going to walk because they have a good case in court. We do not know what happened, so let's hope PUSD did not make a mistake that will allow these students' lawyers to get this whole thing dismissed.
Posted by Nancy s., a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 18, 2011 at 6:57 am
It surprises me that all most of you are doing is bickering over whether an anonymous tip is legal. Bottom line is hardcore drugs in enough quanity to be considered for sale was found on 3 students on campus. You should be sending thanks to both anonymous and the police, unless you are the parents of those arrested. Then of course, you would would thsir behavior because it reflects you.
Posted by Stacey, a resident of the Amberwood/Wood Meadows neighborhood, on Dec 18, 2011 at 9:31 am Stacey is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
So what if others bicker about the legality of whether an anonymous tip constitutes reasonable suspicion to search students on campus? It's nothing that won't happen in court. People are trying to exercise their minds, to read and become educated about some current event.
Posted by Patriot, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 18, 2011 at 11:17 am
"I'll have my kids rights violated anytime to assure they are safe and secure at school."
And if your kids were expelled from school and arrested thought they did absolutely nothing wrong? If they never used, bought or sold any kind of illegal drugs in their lives, would that be OK with you. They would be collateral damage. Is it OK to a arrest and expel some number of innocent students as long as we are getting some guilty ones? And believe me, if we go the route of drug sniffing dogs, anonymous tips, and zero-tolerance, we will be arresting and expelling some innocent students. The potential for abuse is very high.
Posted by Trina, a resident of the Danbury Park neighborhood, on Dec 18, 2011 at 1:34 pm
Money laundering, wire fraud, alien harboring, immigration fraud, mail fraud and conspiracy also indeed qualifies as criminal behavior and can land you 66 years in prison with a $2 million fine. Web Link
Operating a criminal enterprise on school premises in Pleasanton seems to be the norm, but seems like the only people being arrested are the pupils. Why is that? The pupils are only following the examples set by the adults.
Now that it has taken a $100 million plus Federal sting operation to close a phony university that PUSD let operate on its premises ( when it branched out in the dubious phony higher education business), what next?
The Feds in a second grand jury action say the victims were defrauded. How many hundreds of millions will the PUSD be sued for after the criminal case ends? Last month's events opens the way for significant damages in a sure to be filed civil action class action lawsuit by the 1000 plus victims who were defrauded.
Posted by Pete, a member of the Amador Valley High School community, on Dec 19, 2011 at 8:41 am
I understand the anger at the dealers... but hey parents, wake up! They are selling to kids... lots of them. Pay attention to you kid and inspect their room and put them on a curfew. And don't give them access to unlimites money.
Posted by Stacey, a resident of the Amberwood/Wood Meadows neighborhood, on Dec 19, 2011 at 8:49 am Stacey is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
Let's have a dog sniff you for drugs before you are allowed to post here. If you are innocent, you have nothing to worry about, but let us treat you like you are guilty just because you wanted to post here. And remember, you had a choice but it is compulsory for children to be in school.
Posted by lock the parents up too, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Dec 19, 2011 at 8:52 am
"What a crime that our society treats youth as criminals."
The real crime is that the entitlement parents of Pleasanton raise their kids to BE criminals. Mommy and Daddy give the brats the latest smart phones, the most expensive cars, all the spending money the kids want and then they act surprise when the little darlings get into trouble.
Idiots, every one of them. The parents for raising nasty little creeps, the kids for being those nasty little creeps.
Name the kids and name the parents. A little shunning from the community might be as effective as the slap on the wrist they are likely to get. Permanently expel them from all public schools. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance. Enough of my tax money has already been wasted on these criminals.
Posted by Shannon, a resident of the Stoneridge Orchards neighborhood, on Dec 19, 2011 at 10:27 am
I say keep it up Pleasanton Police Department. I want the drugs out of our schools! There are lots of drugs being passed around at the schools in town. Maybe because money is available here for these kids, I don't know but I want it stopped. I agree with the posts that were presented by "Facto". Can you imagine where these kids will be 5 years from now if they are caught now? They need to learn lessons now and clean up their lives.
Posted by Drugs R Bad, a resident of the Southeast Pleasanton neighborhood, on Dec 19, 2011 at 11:09 am
Drugs R Bad.......
At least those 3 can have devastating effects on the person using or selling them. These 3 kids need help now!
The kids get caught with intent to sell. (allegedly) I think most people know drugs are rampant in the schools.
It''s time for action...
Education about side effects
THC is the most under-rated drug for long term health effects.
- Immune System damage
- Short Term Memory Loss (Great for School)
- Chronic Bronchitis ( That is when a smoker hacks up dark crap from their lungs) Pot smokers, you know what I'm talking about)
- Pot smoke has 5x the amount of cancer causing chemicals than cigs
Other tuan that it's fine...
E or Ecstacy or MDMA is different with every batch. It's usually bathtub made, so you never know what's in it. Good luck with that. Ask any E-Tard..
LSD is one of the most power drugs out there. The high can last for 8 hours or more. The changes in the brain are dramatic.
Just add the fact that drug/alcohol use/abuse for humans under the age of 25 does permanent damage to the users young brain. The main areas of the brain damaged most are the "Risk Takng" and "Judgement" Centers of the young brain.
I think everyone has seen the "Progressive" insanity that creeps into the users lives.
I think everyone has access to a computer, Google side effects of THC, LSD, E, Oxy, or anything else and learn for yourselves..
And Remember.... Don't Drink and Drive
The 3 kids that got arrested gives me 3 more big reason why "Drugz R Bad".
Posted by The Other Side, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 19, 2011 at 3:20 pm
I think we are all jumping to conclusions. Are we all assuming they are white and rich?
It's the white and rich who buy, usually not the minorities and the poor. Maybe they found a way to take the money squandering the rich kids have and put it to a good use? Maybe to buy food?
Blame the parents? What if they didn't know? Maybe too busy trying to handle bills and such?
You can also Google the "facts" given by the government to lie their views to the masses. We can argue we don't know the long term effects of these drugs, but then again we didn't know that canola oil which is STILL widely sold is also dangerous?
Get the correct facts, not the skewed facts. Remind me of the EPA report on second hand smoke. Look closely at the report and you can see how powerful you can skew statistics.
Stop viewing from a "We vs They" viewpoint, they are humans too and obtain both sides of the story before prosecuting.
Posted by a mother, a member of the Amador Valley High School community, on Dec 20, 2011 at 8:21 am
from discussions with my kids and their friends, drug use is extremely high in Amador. over 90% have tried it according to the kids. even higher than when i was as kid in the druggy 60's and 70's. we need to take a look at why so many kids are doing drugs now and what are the drivers behind their use - be it unhappiness, insecurity, peer pressure, need to "escape". we need to help our kids understand there are other ways to get "high" like doing something really fun like a sport they love doing or music or being with friends they care about. and when they discover alternatives to be "high", the drugs will fall by the wayside.
Posted by Stacey, a resident of the Amberwood/Wood Meadows neighborhood, on Dec 20, 2011 at 9:18 am Stacey is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
Well, everyone is doing it, right? Teens try everything because they are teens, right? They are a bunch of rebels that always defy their parents, right? How many went unarrested? Let's get drug sniffing dogs in at Amador, treat the entire student population as drug-using criminal rebels, and perpetuate the glorification of the negative youth stereotypes that lead to such behavior. That's bound to help turn things around.
Posted by lock the parents up too, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Dec 20, 2011 at 9:41 am
Been There -- that's funny!
As we know from the recent arrest of a local HS teacher, drugs are not confined to the students. Take the sniffer dogs everywhere, arrest/expel/fire anyone caught in possession on school property.
And Stacy, if all of your angelic little students are indeed innocent then we can stand corrected and must admit that there is no drug problems in our schools. I happen to believe that when this useless generation grows older we will all be in trouble. You think the Wall Street crisis was bad? Imagine it happening with nothing but stoners and losers running the country. Yeah, there are plenty of those running things now. But when this latest generation is in charge we might as well pack it in.
Posted by Stacey, a resident of the Amberwood/Wood Meadows neighborhood, on Dec 20, 2011 at 9:55 am Stacey is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
lock the parents up too,
Please don't conflate the fact that there's a drug problem at Amador with criticism of poor solutions to deal with said drug problem. I also refuse to use words like "useless", "stoners", and "losers" to describe youth. Teens live up to such expectations.
Posted by Stacey, a resident of the Amberwood/Wood Meadows neighborhood, on Dec 20, 2011 at 10:26 am Stacey is a member (registered user) of PleasantonWeekly.com
"Stereotypes Can Fuel Teen Misbehavior"
"adolescents whose mothers expected them to take more risks and be more rebellious reported higher levels of risk-taking behavior than their peers one year later." Web Link
"I am sixteen and am constantly disgusted by the derogatory comments I hear about people in my age group. For Example, in many answers on this website regarding adolescents, I'll read responses such as "they don't listen" or "Teens are so rude" or "They're all so plugged in, and spoiled with cellphones and things."
If you do know teens that are rude, it doesn't mean that it's because of their age, or that all teens are that way. In fact, I believe that when teens act out, it's because they are raised by parents, media, and society that that is the way teens are supposed to behave, with negative stereotypes in comments and shows. People live up to their expectations, you know?" Web Link
And this timely one. Teens today are doing a much better job than many adults when they were teens.
"Fewer teens drink and smoke cigarettes than in any time in the last 30 years, but the widespread availability of medical marijuana appears to be fueling a rise in pot use, health experts said Wednesday."
"When marijuana is taken out of the equation, the proportion of teens reporting they had used any illicit drug declined through the first half of the 2000s and has been stable over the last three years."
"Since 1991, the proportion of eighth-grade students who said they had used alcohol within the last 30 days has declined by half. Rates have also fallen among older students, with binge-drinking among seniors dropping from 41% in 1981 to 22% this year. Still, about 40% of high school seniors said they had used alcohol within the last 30 days."
Posted by Been There, a resident of the Another Pleasanton neighborhood neighborhood, on Dec 21, 2011 at 1:23 am
"Lock Up the parents": I'm glad you enjoyed my tongue in cheek comment.
However, I'm a little bit weirded out by your comments about the younger generation being "losers" and...worse. I am very happy to hand off the baton to the younger ones to run the country. My kids all went to Amador and are nice, stable people in their 20s who managed to stay out of trouble in high school, like the overwhelming majority of kids.
They have outdone me and my husband as far as grades and hard work (and we thought we were good students and conscientious in our day!)
No. We will not have losers running the country. I'm actually very impressed by these kids.
Nevertheless...if they're really bringing dogs into the school, I think they need to bring them all over the school - even into the grown-up areas.
Posted by Student, a member of the Amador Valley High School community, on Dec 22, 2011 at 2:30 am
Pleasanton costs way too much money to have any "fun". You expect us to find alternatives? Almost everything here costs a tremendous amount of money, and it just happens drugs are the cheapest activity to do.
Hang out with friends? Friends hang out and do activities together, and not all of us want to spend large amounts of money to have fun. It's almost as if this city forces us to spend money, so why not send it towards something we actually want?
There's an issue with this whole concepts that all drugs are a horrible thing that needs to be destroyed. It's close to an archaic fear based view that those in power profit from.
If anything, people who don't do drugs usually tend to turn out to be extreme hard-asses who become bitter and vengeful.
There's plenty to consider, open your eyes parents and look at it as if you're a kid too. Pretty sure you've been one too.
Posted by A Mom, a member of the Amador Valley High School community, on Dec 22, 2011 at 9:03 am
Yes we've been there, and like most parents, we want our kids to learn from our mistakes or those mistakes we saw others make when we were teens. Most of the teens who don't do drugs are not "hard asses" or "vengeful". Many do find joy in hanging with friends that don't cost money. My son (16) and his friends hang out at someone's house or bike to a park and play somekind of "pick-up" ball. Most of them have one activity a week, plus a club or two they are involved with at AVHS. What is needed is to find enjoyment in things that don't cost money. You'll be a better adult for it. Drugs are not the answer, and being against them is not archaic. Many of us parents know of someone from our teen years who died, or ruined their life and health due to drugs. There are many things to do that don't cost money. I too grew up in an "expensive" area, with parents who didn't fund my way. My brother spent time in "juvie" because he let friends stash drugs in his van and was charged with enough for "selling". This was the late 70's.
Look online and find out what chemicals are in those drugs (even marijuana) and see how they interact with the brain, especially brains that are still developing and forming (teenage brains). Marijuana interferes with the proper development of the frontal lobe, that is the area of the brain that is primarily growing as a teen and is responsible for proper decision making. Not having money to do the expensive "fun" things available in the area in which you live, is NOT an excuse to do drugs. If you save the money you spend on drugs, you will soon have enough to do those "expensive" activities. Maybe not every weekend, but more than you do now.
Posted by Former student, a member of the Amador Valley High School community, on Jan 11, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Holy cow the responses to this are crazy.
For a town that has its fair share of alcoholics i find it hilarious people are soooo against drugs. You have all had your adult minds poisioned by extreme propoganda that is 100% opposed to any type of rational thinking. Yea drugs are bad and should be mept out of the schools but take it from a now graduating college student, these overbearing and super protective parenting styles and opinions are hurting your kids more than helping. The most closed minded arrogant and generally stupid (with their college choices) are the ones who come from either pleasanton or very similar suburbias.
This was most likely a pot bust. Parents do some research, youll learn the just say no campaign you all know and love fromyour "youth" was a complete smear campaign against rational thought. The idea that marijuana use is the worst thing in the world is ridiculous. Do some independent research and maybe youll learn how much more harmful alchol is than marijuana. From y experience at amador more kids drink and drive than smoke pot.
You adults all live in thisfantasy world where your kid is a little star and never does anything wrong. Most likely they are not going to little johnnys house and are instead at one of their froends parents housegetting wasted and making bad decisions. But its ok because alcohol is legal and we all do it right? You are all soooo quick to strip your kids of their constitutional rights. Were your parets this psycho? How can we expect to learn wothout messing up.
wake up your kids are not angels, i knew of at least 75% of my class partying at least once while at amador and the kids who end up passed ot and in the hospital in college? Yeah thos are the kids who had the psycho overbearig parents. My parents trusted me and allowed me to make my own decisions and i turned out better than about 99% of my friends because i learned about moderation. How can you learn moderation if you have crazy parents that dont let you try anything. Respect your kids and they will respect you. I was practically in tears reading some of the responses on here. 3 resource officers per school? Sorry i forgot pleasanton was located in eas oakland and we have gang problem. Grow up
Sorry for the spelling and formating issues, not on a computer and really pissed off at some of the ways pleasanton residents rescted to this. Ive heard the stories from family, amador has been the same if not worse (lighter punishments back in the day) than it is mow