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BART Family Leave clause and Union dishonesty

Original post made by Joe on Nov 24, 2013

Yes it's an embarrassment to BART management that the Family Leave clause was mistakenly left in the agreement document.

However the Union is being dishonest when it states that this provision was one of the intended benefits all along. The ATU provided the detail (not just a summary) of the various provisions to its members when it recommended that they ratify the deal. Every other provision was explained, but nowhere was the Family Leave clause mentioned.

BART management clearly needs a revamping of its document processing, but the core of Union management is deceitful.

Comments (19)

Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Nov 24, 2013 at 2:54 pm

BART management signed the contract and now they may be sued for changing their minds after the fact.

i rest my case...

B U S T E D!


Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Nov 24, 2013 at 2:58 pm

BART management hired a reputable attorney to study the contract and he studied the contract, along with 2 other members of the board and they signed off as the contract is written.

now you wanna back out? tee hee hee...

fair is fair...

i rest my case...


Posted by PTown, a resident of Amador Estates
on Nov 26, 2013 at 8:49 am

Hay Cholo-- stop this 'I rest my case' none sense....There is balancing act here that you ignoring- in fact you are so one sided about Unions-contracts and the impact to those effected that is ridiculous. Union members like you think they are Winning from BART, but in reality they are 'STEALING' from the same public that you are part of !!
Just in case you are not reading the international news in all the bankrupt government (and their entities) -- it always starts with Massive, unreasonable contracts with union workers that at the end only BK can solve the problem and put people like you out of a job in hurry.....
Just ask yourself a simple question: If the private sector can not afford to have a 'Family Leave' benefits- how can a public entity afford it long term?? The answer is they can not !


Posted by Cholo Gone, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 26, 2013 at 9:21 am

Cholo,
You need to "pull your needle of the record" because you record has a scratch and you just keep bloviating on the same clueless cr*p. Maybe you need some electro-shock therapy to reset something in your brain.


Posted by Daveg, a resident of Birdland
on Nov 26, 2013 at 9:27 am

Daveg is a registered user.

PTown, I have found the best answer for Ms. Cholo is to ignore her. 99% of her ramblings are eventually deleted by PW as irrelevant and/or having nothing to do with the subject matter. Quite simply she appears to be a "case" and does not offer anything of relevance to any subject matter.


Posted by Scott Walsh, a resident of Pleasanton Valley
on Nov 26, 2013 at 10:10 am

PTown, where is the balancing act when Management and CEO,S AND MANAGEMENT get big bucks and PERKS and the worker gets far less after they negotiate. I wonder how you would feel if you were a worker. Who says it' not affordable. All the retirement scandal has involved Management types and their perks. Hell, one county Supervisor has three retirements going for himself. I believe that nregotiations is neccessary regarding this. Corporations have raped the American worker, and the overseas workers as well, by paying them cents on the dollar and giving them horrendous working conditions.


Posted by Ptown, a resident of Amador Estates
on Nov 26, 2013 at 5:06 pm

Scott, If you are suggesting equal pay for all- take a trip to Russia and China and see how they did in the past 50 years and how they are changing fast. If you are suggesting a socialist model (like most Europeans)then we can have a rational conversation where in Europe most private and government practices are synced up. Meaning, a consistent way of handling fair and equitable workers pay and security. Here we just leave it to bunch of union Thugs and may the best man win (at the expense of crippling public). Just see what union did in Detroit before the entire industry and town went bust- In China/Korea and Europe(where they ate our lunch in Automotive industry) the local and federal governments were much more involved in guiding the process and protecting the broader public interest and not just a select group of people! I am not against workers rights (I used to be one myself), but I am against this constant attitude of getting more out of a system that is already broken- BART (just go read their publicly available financials) !!


Posted by Arnold, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 26, 2013 at 8:16 pm

"Posted by Scott Walsh: PTown, where is the balancing act when Management and CEO,S AND MANAGEMENT get big bucks and PERKS and the worker gets far less after they negotiate. I wonder how you would feel if you were a worker. Who says it' not affordable. All the retirement scandal has involved Management types and their perks. Hell, one county Supervisor has three retirements going for himself. I believe that nregotiations is neccessary regarding this. Corporations have raped the American worker, and the overseas workers as well, by paying them cents on the dollar and giving them horrendous working conditions."

This article is about public employee union members, their compensation, and their benefits.

Scott, by all accounts you're a good guy and I respect your community involvement. BUT, to make the above statement sounds ridiculous in light of your SUBSTANTIAL PENSION and LIFETIME MEDICAL BENEFITS for both yourself and your spouse. The medical benefits cost taxpayers 15K annually, and your current Pension is: $104,306.64. That pension is only about 62 percent funded meaning more tax dollars are needed to cover the millions you'll make in retirement. Add 'em up and you alone receive about twice the bay area median family income - while not working.

Taxpayers are taxed enough already and part of the reason is due to BLOATED pensions like yours, which includes RETRACTIVE Pension benefits that you never really earned - but were gifted with taxpayer dollars. Your pension is also partly tax free based on your disability (sounds like yours might be one of the minority that is actually justified even though the 50% taxfree benefit isn't, IMO). So how can you say workers aren't taken care of and it's really all about EVIL Corporations and CEO's?

I'm not a corporation or CEO but I do know an increasing amount of my tax dollars are going toward your excessive pension (Because CalPERS says so). There aren't any CEO's telling me I need to pay them more. If they do I'll find another company to do business with.



Posted by Joe, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 26, 2013 at 10:04 pm

Speaking of Detroit, I posted a suggestion a while ago in a different forum topic. Got to Google maps, look for Detroit MI., zoom in a bit and go to street view. The amount of abandoned and demolished property is amazing. The number of weed-overgrown vacant lots is staggering. You don't even need to look for a particular neighborhood; just pick a spot at random and go look.

This is a direct result of the combination of unions, union workers, and the politicians in their pockets. The system cannot be propped up forever, and when it crashes, it does so quickly. The population of Detroit dropped from 1.8M to 700,000. Look what that system of political collusion did for the once-great city of Detroit.


Posted by Sarah, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 27, 2013 at 12:28 am

Yeah, Scott, I'm with Arnold. You seem like a good guy, but you're really robbing all of us, like a criminal, and like you really didn't earn your pension, because pensions are just free stuff that the thug unions wrenched from the hands of good working people, and now the politicians are in their pockets, and so, Scott, unlike corporations and CEO's with salaries of $20 million and more than that with pensions, your $104,306.64 -- I've got it figured to the penny -- is kind of like taking food out of the mouths of babies, which means you're a good guy but, you know, your pension that you don't give back to starving children is a pretty cruddy thing which makes.... Well, I'm too polite to say any more. Your good friend, Sarah


Posted by Chris, a resident of Stoneridge
on Nov 27, 2013 at 9:14 am

BART and other public employee unions have shown they cannot be trusted and will game any loophole to the max. A past example of this is the carry over of vacation days to pad retirement pay. This over the top paid leave perk would merely amount to another 6 weeks paid vacation every year for the union members. It is time for BART public employee union as well as management benefits be brought into line with the private sector.


Posted by Pat, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 27, 2013 at 9:31 am

" That pension is only about 62 percent funded meaning more tax dollars are needed to cover the millions you'll make in retirement. "

You should disclose that that is speculation. It depends on future losses and gains in the pension funds. It could actually be that the pension is 50% funded or 110% funded. Markets declined significantly after the crash of 2008, making things worse. That is changing now. We'll see how far it goes.


Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Nov 27, 2013 at 1:03 pm

I'LL never understand why so many Plutonians are soooooo GREEDY and don't want BART UNION employees to have their fair share of the money?

NO MONEY NO BART TRANSPORTATION!

i rest my case...tee hee hee

pa HAPPY THANKSGIVING! VIVA AMERICA! VIVA!

signed,

the lucky wishbone...


Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Nov 27, 2013 at 2:22 pm

(Post removed by Pleasanton Weekly Online staff as irrelevant to this thread.)


Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Nov 27, 2013 at 3:08 pm

(Post removed by Pleasanton Weekly Online staff as irrelevant to this thread.)


Posted by Arnold, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 27, 2013 at 6:26 pm

Posted by Pat in response to a portion of my recent comment: ( That pension is only about 62 percent funded meaning more tax dollars are needed to cover the millions you'll make in retirement.).

Pat says, "You should disclose that that is speculation. It depends on future losses and gains in the pension funds. It could actually be that the pension is 50% funded or 110% funded. Markets declined significantly after the crash of 2008, making things worse. That is changing now. We'll see how far it goes."

Pat, it isn't speculation. My number, which was a guesstimate based on recollection, was inaccurate. The actual market value funding ratio for the Fire Department is, based on CalPERS last actuarial report, 66.9%. Of course last years CalPERS return rate of one percent (.1 percent net) isn't yet reflected in the most recent CalERS report. When the new report is released, any day now, the funding level will most likely be less than my stated number.

According to CalPERS latest report, the FD unfunded liability is, even after recent gains of 21.7% and 13.3 percent respectively, $53,011,923.00. If Pleasanton were fed-up and wanted to leave the CalPERS pension plan, CalPERS says it will cost Pleasanton $123,058,200.00. Of course based on the yet to be included almost ZERO percent return in FY 2012-13 that number is now much higher. Somewhere between those two numbers lies the actual unfunded liability.

Divide that mid-range number (about 88 million) by the combined number of 270 active and retired employees and you'll come up with the collective dollar amount owed to those employees for work already performed. In other words, beyond their generous compensation, pension benefits, and healthcare, taxpayers owe them millions more. And those dollars come from the General Fund meaning they can't be spent on things like infrastructure, sports parks, riding trails, non-profits, capital improvements, amenities, etc…

Not speculation at all, Pat. The CalPERS actuarial report for Pleasanton is public information. You can Google it if you don't believe my numbers.


Posted by Sarah, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 28, 2013 at 2:51 pm

Dear Pat, Scott, and all other pension earning criminals who take my money. Like Arnold, I don't want to hear about what the market is going to be doing 4-5 years down the line; nor do I want to hear about increased tax revenues taken in by the state. I am what's called a very envious person who hates to other people do well, and especially when I have to pay taxes which, face it, is THE most important problem facing me and my offspring. Others think it might be justice, or redistributive justice, or minimal right to make a decent living, but for me it all rests on good guys like yourselves who, apparently, don't know that they are criminals who are doing union thugs' bidding. Happy Thanksgiving everyone, and just remember, whatever is going on in the world means nothing in relation to the taxes our criminal government is taking from me. And although I pay less than in most developed countries, and although I pay way more than the wealthy pay in those countries with so-called union problems, I will continue to use (deceptively) whatever selective facts I can in order to let others know how angry I am that I have to pay taxes. One other thing: A tsunami is coming.


Posted by local, a resident of Birdland
on Nov 28, 2013 at 10:32 pm

We should do something about the criminals from CalPERS who told the cities that they could retroactively and significantly increase pensions and it will not cost a cent. No coincidence that CalPERS is run by the employees who benefit from increased benefits..


Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Nov 29, 2013 at 10:27 am

CALPERS webpage: Web Link

enjoy!


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