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Boeing union forcing move to Long Beach?

Original post made by Joe on Nov 14, 2013

Boeing offered its largest union a guarantee of 20,000 union jobs at its Washington facilities at prevailing wages for the duration of the 777 lifetime, estimated to be 15-20 years. In exchange for keeping the plant and jobs in Washington state, Boeing asked union workers to enter into a 401k-type pension plan and contribute more to health care.

On Wednesday the machinists' union in Washington state voted to reject Boeing's offer, and Boeing is now looking at other locations to build the 777 airplane. The other locations include Long Beach, CA; South Carolina, and using contractors in Japan.

This would end production of Boeing aircraft in Washington. Boeing already builds its 787 jet in South Carolina, which was its first large step away from its traditional manufacturing facilities in Seattle. The union claimed that Boeing moved the 787 from Washington as a union-breaking ploy, and asked the National Labor Relations Board to intervene. In the end the NRLB allowed the move to South Carolina, and those workers in Washington State lost their jobs forever.

History is repeating itself; so far the union has not learned from its past mistakes. Personally, I'm all for the move to Long Beach; it's about time that CA was considered for new heavy industry.

Comments (28)

Posted by Boeing to CA is DOA, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 15, 2013 at 6:47 pm

Why would Boening move production to CA? It ain't gonna happen given the CA business climate, the cost of living, and the unions stranglehold on CA Democratic politicians.


Posted by Anti-union, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 16, 2013 at 3:33 pm

I certainly understand moving away if the local union is unreasonable in understanding and accepting 2013 realities. I guess those union workers would rather have NO jobs than reasonable compensation for the area. Their choice...to live with.
But CA is a crazy state, with rules, meddling, and taxes. However, going back the Hughes 'Spruce Goose', Long Beach has been an aerospace mecca. Lots and lots of exempted 'illegals' that would likely accept training apprenticeships. But all over the state they have 'bought in to the gimme-gimme socialist union mentality, so who knows. I think Boeing should go to Arizona or Nevada...lots of cheap houses in both.


Posted by Unions are bad, really bad, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 16, 2013 at 4:04 pm

I think it's a crying shame that companies allow unions to bully them and push the companies all over the world the way they do. I remember when companies were forced to start going overseas for cheaper labor. We used to see front-page photos (back when Ronald Reagan was president, but before he succumbed to alzeimers late during his first term) that showed beefy unionists standing on the U.S. shoreline shouting "Nyah-nyah-nee-nyah-nyah, and don't ever come back!" But now the liberal media doesn't show these knuckle-dragging thugs doing this anymore because, face it, the media is afraid of the union toughs will throw poop into company pick-up trucks.

It's a crying shame. I know many CEOs who actually have been forced to live overseas because they're terrorized by thug-like workers who demand to make more than minimum wage. The shame of it: A CEO makes 30 million a year and can't even feel secure in his own country for fear of minimum wage workers marching down their street!!!


Posted by Reagan Follower, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 16, 2013 at 9:51 pm

(Post removed by Pleasanton Weekly Online staff as irrelevant to this thread.)


Posted by Unions are bad, really bad, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 16, 2013 at 10:00 pm

(Post removed by Pleasanton Weekly Online staff as irrelevant to this thread.)


Posted by Right, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 17, 2013 at 6:14 am

I especially loved it when president Reagan fired all those air traffic controllers......good times! Time to teach union thugs, once again, who pays their bills for them and keeps them off the streets. You know I'm right.


Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Nov 17, 2013 at 9:54 am

It seems to me that unions exist for a reason? what could it be...?

alls i knows is that some unions have kicked some serious butt!

tee hee hee...

as for the above whiners...go away...far far away!


Posted by Kickstart, a resident of another community
on Nov 18, 2013 at 6:17 am

I commend the rugged individualism in the above posts, but wishing unions out of existence will provide you a horrible existence in the future.

A high density of union employees is what will maintain a higher standard of living for the middle class. Without unions and a strong labor force, almost all of the production you create will go to the top 1%. Take a look around, middle class incomes rest at $50,054 for 2011 $750 dollars less than it was in 2010, why(?), because of weakened labor laws, politicians on both sides catering only to the wealthiest and a voting public believing they can get to the American dream sitting idly by watching the American Middle class shrink to the smallest it's every been since 1927. That's the year before the stock market crash and yes a mirror image of the disparity of the wealthiest and the middle class from 1927 happened again in 2007 right before the Great Recession.

I get the desire to truly enjoy being and seeing the underdog rise up out of nowhere to become the very well off in America, but the game is now rigged and politicians and the lobbyists in Washington are not your friends. The only way forward at this point is to strengthen the Middle Class, the engine that drives the economy.


Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Nov 18, 2013 at 2:26 pm

List of ACCIDENTS CAUSED BY BOEING:

Web Link


Posted by Self, a resident of another community
on Nov 26, 2013 at 3:35 pm

I've been fortunate for the past 7 years to work within the Aerospace industry.
While businesses in California may be over-regulated, there is plenty of engineering talent in SoCal - non-unionized.
Also, while salaries have been frozen for the past years, unions' leaders are not helping by killing the golden goose, who provides work to the union members.
From the rugged American individualism perspective, unions are an anachronism.
Congratulations to Boeing for winning 200+ 777x offers in Dubai & welcome the work in Long Beach!


Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore
on Nov 27, 2013 at 4:31 pm

May I politely recommend that the public know which planes are made by Boeing and take another plane.

otherwise...get ready for the other side...tee hee


Posted by Dan, a resident of Bridle Creek
on Nov 27, 2013 at 8:00 pm

"List of accidents and incidents INVOLVING the Boeing 727"

FIFY

Just about one minute of reading would have explained to even the dumbest of reader that MOST of the crashes were pilot or weather-related and had nothing to do with Boeing, and it was only about one plane, the 727.

Normally I don't reply to you because of your outright lameness, but I couldn't pass up this time.

Congrats cholo.

Sincerely,

Dan


Posted by Joe, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 29, 2013 at 5:53 pm

Boeing could use the McDonnell-Douglas facilities in SoCal for the 777, if it decides to move production there from Washington. This would be a boon for California, which has seen a massive outflux of manufacturing and manufacturing jobs in recent years.

CA has some competition. There are 22 other right-to-work states that have learned from South Carolina and would benefit from a Boeing decision to build the 777 there, just as SC is benefiting from the 787. Indiana would be the 23rd other state. It passed a right-to-work law earlier this year, but a legal challenge has that decision now in the hands of its Supreme Court.

The National machinists' organization urged the Boeing workers in WA to accept Boeing's offer, which they didn't. Boeing offered a wage and salary increase schedule along with a 20-year guarantee of employment.

Nationwide, union membership is down to 6.6% of the workforce.


Posted by Unions are bad, really bad, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 29, 2013 at 6:09 pm

I agree with Joe. See, American workers need to better compete with workers in the Philippines, Indonesia, China, Brazil, which means being willing to work for below subsistence wages. The quicker American workers realize that Walmart is the model to follow, the better we can compete on a global scale. What the unions don't understand is that the global realities of the beauty of capitalism are such that workers are increasingly provided the opportunity to live and die on their knees, kowtowing to $28 million per year Boeing CEOs before then crawling to the rear of the food stamp line.


Posted by Unions are bad, really bad, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 29, 2013 at 6:17 pm

That's the beauty of flying the skies inside a Boeing 787 manufactured in South Carolina. Despite frequent battery failures and, now, icing on the wings -- pilots being advised to avoid clouds -- we can applaud Boeing for standing up against unionized labor, even if it means less safe planes. Yup, that's the beauty of it!

Web Link


Posted by Right, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 30, 2013 at 8:25 pm

Unions are bad-when you done kissing union members rear ends, cite your source that proves your fallacious rants related to batteries and ice. How could that possibly be tied to the responsible, hard working people of South Carolina. What do you have against these middle class folks making a living, raising their families and paying their bills. Maybe if they had to cough up 10% of their earnings to support union fat cats, the planes might be much safer. Only a union drone thinks that way....good luck on your next flight to South Carolina.


Posted by Unions are bad, really bad, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 30, 2013 at 8:47 pm

I provided a link, but some true believers believe sooooo hard that they're unable to acknowledge facts. Right -- Right from the land of the doofusses -- is one of those true believers. A pitiable character.

But like my and Right have been saying all along. Better to fly unsafe skies than to align oneself with a union that gets you better wages, better pensions, better work safety conditions. In the meantime, Right will fly the unsafe skies with ear plugs and hands over his eyes, trying to avoid the real possibility of a mere rain cloud bringing down the Carolina-assembled Dreamliner.


Posted by Anti-union, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 30, 2013 at 11:10 pm

last month I heard the 'package' that was offered to the unions if Boeing stayed. In addition all the usual 'benefits' like medical and more, Boeing offered 1% ANNUALY FOREVER....guaranteed. That 'base' would grow exponentially, because 5th year would have several previous years built into the new base..each and every year would have a new 'base'. The greedy fools will regret cutting off their own jobs. There's nothing else in Seattle.


Posted by Anti-union, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 30, 2013 at 11:20 pm

Of course, part of the usual benefits including Cost Of Living built in to the annual 'BASE". There are plenty of people in recent years who have been without jobs, or doing 'contract' or part-time work w/o benfits, and certainly NO COL built in. These idiots that probably couldn't 'do the math' don't understand the exponential 'growth', plus the medical, guaranteed security, and fat retirements. Now, they find their greedy fists stuck in the jar trying to get more. Sad. There don't deserve a job at all.
Boeing will do just fine elsewhere.


Posted by Unions are bad, really bad, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 1, 2013 at 9:40 am

Safe or unsafe skies? Batteries dying, wings icing, with pilots being warned to avoid flying through clouds - that's a comforting thought, no? - heck, these are small matters. What really matters is that antiunion has heard some things, and that unions are bad, really bad. Because they are. Unions, in their struggles to increase wages for their members (and thus raise wages for all workers), and to increase health and safety conditions for its members (as well as for all workers), are against freedom. And liberty. And individualism. See, right now, the only really free people are people working for less than minimum wage in "right to work" states (i.e., the South), and child laborers in China because, see, although the child laborers aren't making enough to survive, they are dying as free individuals, in liberty. See how that works? It's simple - that is, any simple mind can grasp this issue.


Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger, a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Dec 1, 2013 at 10:15 am

Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.

"Unions, in their struggles to increase wages for their members (and thus raise wages for all workers)" Time and again this has been proven to be a false statement. Wouldn't issues with Boeing's dreamliner have more to do with more to do with designers, engineers, and vendors?

Cholo, how is Boeing going out of business a good thing for anyone employed by them?


Posted by Anti-union, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 1, 2013 at 10:24 am

The idiotic, sarcastic blathering of 'unions are bad, really bad', comes from the feebleminded 'brainwashing' of their unions. The RIGHT to work and hire would STIMULATE AND CREATE jobs for all the middle-class, mid-level who are currently UNemployed !!
The Boeing UNIONS made their choices and their own beds, so they can lie in them, or NOT!
Bye!


Posted by Unions are bad, really bad, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 1, 2013 at 11:35 am

I confess, I have been brainwashed by the unions. So have over half of the American population that supports unions and unionism. Brainwashed, one and all. And, too, unions don't elevate wages for everyone, they bring wages down because ... there are right-wing financed studies out there that prove it. Honest. Really. For a fact. All you have to be is a true believer to accept the FACTS promoted by right-wing think tanks. And yes, instead of solid, experienced union labor for our airlines, we should have minimum wage earners doing the same work, oh not doing it as well maybe, but what Kathleen and the other wack-jobs tell us time and again, is that this isn't a matter of justice or fairness, quality of work, or here even air safety. No, it's about consumer costs to get on an airline because, they believe, if Boeing could get by paying its workers minimum wage, the cost of flying would go down. And pay no mind to what CEOs and managers are pulling in. It's those darned unions that'll poop in your Daddy's pick-up truck if given a chance, they're the real culprits.

I'm proud to have seen the light. The problems Boeing is having with its South Carolina built 787 aren't about quality of labor because, well, the wack-jobs tell us so. Oh, and don't forget, if capital can pay its workers half as much, it'll hire more workers. Why? Well, beyond the obvious, that they'll need to hire quality control inspectors to go over the bad work being performed by disgruntled workers, there's the matter of, hey, the wealthy love to give back. We saw this with tax cuts for the rich back in Bush II; and we saw how that worked. And, hey, since Reagan, just look at how deregulation (as but one example) has created all kinds of new jobs that are paying workers so much more than pre-Reagan. It's all about belief, my children. Admit to the powers of union brainwashing, and you all will see the light ... while avoiding those rain clouds that ice up the Dreamliner's wings.

File all this under: Teapee Logic.


Posted by Joe, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 1, 2013 at 11:39 am

It's not like this Boeing contract offer/rejection hasn't happened before. The 787 decision was made in 2008, and since then Boeing has created 6,400 jobs in Charleston, SC. Other companies that have moved manufacturing, in whole or in part, to the southern right-to-work states: Caterpillar, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, NCR, Volkswagen, Fidelity, Newell Rubbermaid, Mercedes-Benz, Texas Instruments, and Dell.


Posted by Unions are bad, really bad, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 1, 2013 at 11:51 am

Go ahead and move to Mississipp, Joe. I'm with you, after seeing the light. Our skill level likely is commensurate with sub-minimum wage, and I'm certain prevailing Southern ideologies -- blacks are inferior, Democrats like blacks and so are to be kept out of political office -- are to our liking. (BTW, pay no mind to the fact that over 2000 companies have moved into/started up in California over the past year. And, hey!, watch out for that rain cloud!)


Posted by Joe, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 1, 2013 at 12:44 pm

Unions, I only wish you were correct. CA manufacturing jobs have been declining for a long time, due to the high cost of doing business in our state. In the past four years, US manufacturing jobs have increased by 4.2%, while CA continued its decline. Union regulations and labor costs are a contributing factor, but by no means the only one. Intel, for example, chose to build their new plant in Portland OR, even though they remain headquartered in Santa Clara. That plant by itself was a $5BN investment. Better OR than overseas.

CA lawmakers have the opportunity to make a bid for Boeing's manufacturing plant. They can follow the lead of South Carolina's legislature and offer a package of tax incentives that lure manufacturing, and manufacturing workers, to the state.

The 2,000 new companies in the state are an oft-quoted statistic, but you need to look at the underlying numbers to understand what that really means. The majority of these companies are small with 50 or fewer employees, and very few make it to the point where they become profitable. It's wonderful that people with the skills and talent that these companies need live here. Now if we could do the same with the manufacturing sector, we'd be firing on all cylinders.


Posted by Unions are bad, really bad, a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Dec 1, 2013 at 1:06 pm

I'm with Joe who insists that a plunge toward China is what we need. Why pay US workers more than Chinese child laborers make? After all, why shouldn't we strive to be a 3rd world country? Because, see, Chinese workers are free from govt'l regulations. They may die frequently of overwork, starvation, and burning manufacturing plants, but they die as free individuals without govt breathing down their necks. Questions of fair wage, job safety, workers' health, these are all things of the past. Instead, we should all be worried about making our American workers competitive with the Chinese, and if that means working for sub-minimum wage, then so be it. Because that's the beauty of the capitalist market. The rich get richer, and workers gain satisfaction in being treated on a par with workers in 3rd world countries.

So, Boeing. They bust up the unions by moving to the great, progressive state of South Carolina where they can pay workers less. Then, after a few years, Boeing can decrease wages further because, hey, if they don't take lower wages the company will be 'forced' -- forced, I tell you -- to move their operations to China. And, more beauty, the S. Carolina workers aren't unionized so there's NOTHING they can do about it except live on their knees with sub-par wages or move to China where they can be competitive. This teapee logic is what we should be following, folks. Free yourselves from your slavish, brainwashed idea that workers should make a fair wage in safe and healthful work environments. Now, it's about corporate profits. Invest in Boeing!!! Workers? Let them move to Oregon, or South Carolina, or, eventually, China.


Posted by Formerly Dan from BC, a resident of Bridle Creek
on Dec 2, 2013 at 8:28 pm

Formerly Dan from BC is a registered user.

Kathleen is precisely correct.

The issues described in the link provided by UAB,RB indicates a design, not an assembly problem. Therefore, because of his lack of reading comprehension this was not due to a non-union shop.

Again, just a few minutes of reading could have saved us the time in having to read through his tripe.

What a waste of time. Go away troll.

Sincerely,

Dan


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