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With just 3 days to go, BART-unions say they're making progress to avert Friday morning strike

Original post made on Oct 4, 2013

With three days remaining before a 60-day cooling off period expires, negotiators for BART management and its labor unions reported Monday that they are making progress on some issues but much work remains to be done on other issues.

Read the full story here Web Link posted Friday, October 4, 2013, 7:21 AM

Comments (24)

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Posted by local
a resident of Birdland
on Oct 4, 2013 at 11:38 am

Management has given the best and final offer already. We have negotiated more than we should have already. Management, please do not give them anything else. The best and final offer is already too lucrative for the workers and prevents BART from doing all the capital expenses needed to make BART reliable, safe, and modern.


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Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Oct 6, 2013 at 9:34 am

(Post removed by Pleasanton Weekly Online staff as irrelevant to this thread.)


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Posted by Cecil
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 6, 2013 at 11:19 am

(Post deemed inappropriate by Pleasanton Weekly Online staff)


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Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Oct 6, 2013 at 11:54 am

Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.

For Cholo, "On August 10th, BART presented its final offer to union leadership to help reach a contract agreement before the cooling off period took effect the following day. Union leadership left the bargaining table and has yet to respond to the proposal, which includes a 10% raise for employees over four years (2.5%, 2.5%, 2.5% and 2.5%)." Web Link This is from the BART web site and has an update date of September 6, 2013.


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Posted by Cecil
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 6, 2013 at 12:04 pm

When some posters cannot read very well and have a penchant for prevarication, it makes civil dialogue rather difficult:

"The unions late Wednesday submitted their second proposal of the week -- and their third offer of the cool-down period -- while BART management on Thursday afternoon was preparing its first counter-offer in months."






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Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Oct 6, 2013 at 1:05 pm

Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.

Cecil, Your post does not make mine incorrect (final offer . . . before the cooling off" vs "preparing its first counter-offer in months." Could be they are one in the same until this past Thursday.

If they are preparing another counter, there is nothing to say if that will be anything more than the last offer. There also is a negotiation turn of phrase, "last, best, and final offer." Could be that hasn't been reached.


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Posted by Nurse Shark
a resident of Bridle Creek
on Oct 6, 2013 at 1:25 pm

(Post deemed inappropriate by Pleasanton Weekly Online staff)


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Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Oct 6, 2013 at 1:48 pm

Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.

What did I fudge? BART said it was their final offer months ago. They haven't made a counter offer in months. It is unknown at this point if the counter offer will be different from the final offer.


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Posted by Joe
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 6, 2013 at 3:52 pm

I've been reading and commenting on these and other Forums topics for months, and I have never seen Kathleen present anything but the unblemished facts. When the facts are presented that way, as facts, without commentary and without any amount of "I told you so," the responders tend to attack the presenter, in this case, Kathleen. Since the facts speak for themselves, the only recourse for some is to attempt to discredit the speaker.


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Posted by Right
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 6, 2013 at 4:02 pm

Joe, welcome to debating with liberals in California. No facts in their weak rebuttals, only personal attacks. Didn't dems used to say they cared about people? What happened?


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Posted by Cecil
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 6, 2013 at 4:34 pm

Somebody said: "Union leadership left the bargaining table and has yet to respond to the proposal."

Her untrue claim was exposed: "The unions late Wednesday submitted their second proposal of the week -- and their third offer of the cool-down period -- while BART management on Thursday afternoon was preparing its first counter-offer in months."

Then, after being corrected, that same somebody attempts to deny and dissemble, impressing no one. Prediction: Soon the PW editors will step in in order to protect her from those truthful liberals.

And then, after that, Tea Partiers step forward to defend their anonymous darling of dissembling.

Before I get disappeared by editors, just let me say: Someone either can't read or cannot tell the truth; then being faced with the truth, that same someone denies with untruthful banter. Well, ya gotta like the consistency.


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Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Oct 6, 2013 at 5:45 pm

Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.

Cecil:
"Management has given the best and final offer already." by local
"Prove it 'local'." by Cholo
"For Cholo, 'On August 10th, BART presented its final offer to union leadership.'" what I posted.

I have no idea why you are mentioning a quote I wasn't commenting on. And still "while BART management on Thursday afternoon was preparing its first counter-offer in months," confirms what I posted about their prior final offer. The potential for a counter-offer is a change in their approach.


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Posted by Cecil
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 6, 2013 at 6:00 pm

This post came from somebody who just can't own up to their own penchant for prevarication. For Cholo, "On August 10th, BART presented its final offer to union leadership to help reach a contract agreement before the cooling off period took effect the following day. Union leadership left the bargaining table and has yet to respond to the proposal, which includes a 10% raise for employees over four years (2.5%, 2.5%, 2.5% and 2.5%)." Web Link This is from the BART web site and has an update date of September 6, 2013.

I pointed out that the management bootlicker who posted such did so without acknowledging that, in fact, union leadership had offered three counterproposals.

Why do I even bother attempting to reason with such uneducated rubes?

If the clowns on this site are unable to read and unable to tell the truth, how do they expect anyone to believe them?

Calling PW Editors, one of your faves has again embarrassed herself. This site needs to be closed down pronto before the embarrassment is further compounded.

Right/Kathleen/Daveg/Joe/Julie -- any bets on how many people these monikers add up to? Less challenging: What do their ideas together add up to? Answer: They don't like unions; they don't like BART; with no argumentative skills, they can only prevaricate and dissemble, hoping no one notices.


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Posted by Cecil
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 6, 2013 at 6:47 pm

Stand alert PW editors! One of the prevaricators is getting ready to respond to my above post. After you give her the last word, then you may shut down this site. We know you won't before she responds.


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Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Oct 6, 2013 at 7:13 pm

Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.

Cecil, I was not debating whether or not the union had made offers. The question Cholo raised was about management.

If a thread is closed to only registered users, then I can still comment.


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Posted by Spacini@yahoo.com
a resident of Birdland
on Oct 6, 2013 at 8:12 pm

(Post deemed inappropriate by Pleasanton Weekly Online staff)


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Posted by Spacini@yahoo.com
a resident of Birdland
on Oct 6, 2013 at 8:12 pm

(Post deemed inappropriate by Pleasanton Weekly Online staff)


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Posted by Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Oct 6, 2013 at 8:43 pm

(Post deemed inappropriate by Pleasanton Weekly Online staff)


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Posted by Cecil
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 6, 2013 at 8:55 pm

I've already recommended that some posters take up remedial reading, as their posts reflect misread information all too consistently. I'll not spend time on someone who cannot read past 6th grade level. Without basic reading skills, how can one be expected to formulate coherent arguments. (Where do these people come from? And they think their posts are going to impress readers. Gawd!)

As for Spacini, I have this to say. Very intelligent post. Very intelligent post. Very intelligent post. And he talks about others taking their meds. And he talks about others taking their meds. And he talks about others taking their meds. Hang in there Space. Hang in there Space. Hang in there Space.

And wishing you pleasant dreams about mittens, myself, and Mike Cherry who all seem to keep you awake at night. (It must be painful to confront arguments one can't even begin to refute.)


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Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Oct 6, 2013 at 9:14 pm

Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.

Cecil, start at the top and reread. My post was in response to Cholo about management proposals. The rest was merely part of the paragraph from BART's site. A statement, a false assertion, verification of first statement. Done. The rest is some primrose path you've taken. You don't keep me up nights, ever.


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Posted by Cecil
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 6, 2013 at 9:32 pm

No, someone just stays up nights attempting to save face after once again embarrassing themselves. I'll not respond further to someone who knows not how to read and spends the majority of their time trying to back peddle after yet another doozy of a false claim.

If posters troubled themselves to formulate coherent arguments, instead of resorting to little snipes that reflect an underdeveloped ideology (see Tea Party 'truisms') and instead of resorting to conspicuously refutable quotes from biased parties, they wouldn't have to spend the day and evening whining how 'misunderstood' and wounded they are. Pleasant dreams, and happy reading.

Now, with the deadwood cleared away, we can once again appreciate how, contrary to some posters' claims, the BART workers' union has offered three counterproposals while BART management has remained unyielding. One side is clearly showing a willingness to compromise, the other, not so much, if at all.

No matter how it shakes out, let's be clear about one thing. No one wants a strike. And that includes union Bart workers. Strikes are only stratagems of last resort, undertaken by those who, not being heard by those in power, realize that the only recourse is to shake things up.

So, some second rate newspaper claims the public doesn't want a strike, and the Tea Party clowns want to make hay from this? Well, I'd bet that at least that percent of union members (and leaders) share the same sentiment. BART management has to give the workers a reason not to strike. Unfortunately, it hasn't done so thus far.


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Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Oct 6, 2013 at 9:45 pm

Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.

The claim was management made a final offer. That is proven to be true. That the union has made unanswered proposals was not in dispute.

What is the union suggesting as a permanent source of revenue for its permanent increase in wages and benefits proposals?


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Posted by Cecil
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Oct 6, 2013 at 10:04 pm

Here's what some management bootlicker claimed some 9 hours ago: "Union leadership left the bargaining table and has yet to respond to the proposal, which includes a 10% raise for employees over four years (2.5%, 2.5%, 2.5% and 2.5%)"

As I've had to state, union leadership has responded 3 times. It is somewhat tedious having to deal with a poster who consistently gets facts wrong, is unable to read, and apparently has no argument to offer, only pseudo-questions offered in tandem with an inability to read or formulate a coherent argument.

Why that poster's preoccupation with denying that which she has approvingly offered as fact? Whatever, it's well beyond my pay grade and, truly, a bit insulting to my intelligence. What I do know is that the majority of my responses gets lamentably diverted to trite matters of Tea Partiers' inability to read and interpret a quote or a statistic or a poll. Too much lost education for me to correct.

How can one engage in civil dialogue about issues when one's adversaries can only show a conspicuous lack of education?


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Posted by Kathleen Ruegsegger
a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Oct 7, 2013 at 6:21 am

Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.

I quoted a paragraph for the sole purpose of the statement of management's final offer.

What is the union suggesting as a permanent source of revenue for its permanent increase in wages and benefits proposals?


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