Post a New Topic
Original post made
on Mar 4, 2011
As a Castlewood Country Club member I welcome the Pleasanton Weekly's front-page coverage of the anniversary of Boards' lockout of food and beverage employees and last weeks' statement from the faith community. I hope this coverage leads more CCC members to examine the cost, both economic and social, of their Board's labor relation's strategy. It is time to negotiate in earnest and bring this sad chapter in Castlewood history to a close or move to mediation and binding arbitration if necessary. If not, then regular demonstrations, canceled tournaments, lower equity value and higher dues will become "the new normal" for Castlewood members.
It's hard to imagine year later that the union has not helped these employees find other gainful employment. Or is this just about 'principal' and trying to get a business to capitulate to union pressure, even though it hasn't produces their desired outcome after a year? I'm curious as to what point these folks move on or when the union stops attempting to use the employees to further their influence on business.
I don't belong to a Union; I can be let go in 5 minutes; I have to pay for my health care; $800 a month with $40 copay; and there are many more like me. This is life, we are on our own, and we make best of it; we do not rely on screwing the business over because I did not negotiate my own employment with the company. I, as individual, can put all my personal belongings in a box; walk out the door, and go find a job elsewhere. I, do not say, hey everyone in my group, lets walk out until the company pays more of our benefits. I do not get the current mentality; I understand the old days with little or no worker's laws out there; but in this time and age; unions are a parasite to a company; and end up bringing it down instead of helping the company grow.
I do not own a company; honestly, to the people that own companies and have a dozen employees or more; I admire you, for everything you risk; for all the sweat and blood that you put into your business; and one day; collectively, your employees could crush you; just because you make a profit; this mentality of unions sickens me...anyhow..enough said...and we wonder why there is slow job growth...
I'd be curious to know the real financial points of this on-going employment dispute. The news articles seem to suggest that part-time workers had previously been provided medical benefits.
Can anyone say:
Under old contract -
A. How many hours did someone have to work to qualify for medical benefits?
B. What did Castlewood pay for each employee's coverage for an individual, and for a family?
C. Did employees share any of the costs of the medical premiums?
Under new contract proposed by Castlewood, the article says that:
A. Only full-time employees will get medical benefits
B. no information about what Castlewood has to pay in premiums
C. proposal that employees pay $366 for individual coverage, and $739 for family coverage
If the three year contract expired in 2008, that means the contract was from 2005. I know that health care premiums are growing by 10% to 20% each year, so multiplied by 6 years (2005 to 2011) that equals a 60% to 120% increase in medical premiums.
I know that my employer expects me to pay a bigger share for my family's health coverage (about $600 monthly for a family in an HMO).
Asking a full-time employee to pay $366 per month for individual coverage is like a pay cut of $2.25 an hour ($366/160 hours (for full-time work of 40 hours a week)).
If Castlewood's medical premiums have gone up 100%, I can understand why they want employees to pay a bigger share of the medical premiums. Expecting the Club to pick up the full cost is like a $2.25 or $4.60 per hour pay raise for what sounds like a minimum wage food service / housecleaning job / $8 an hour.
can anyone tell us what are the real numbers / # / $
I'm not a member of any union; in fact, I've never gotten a paycheck in my life; I made my money the old fashioned way; I inherited it; in giving this situation an objective assessment; I would recommend that interested parties ignore the company's profits; for those who have been irresponsibly locked out of their jobs I would recommend that they get real; accept the terms of management; it will likely mean they will fire you after you are allowed to begin work again; but rough rocks; you should have inherited wealth and a factory to own like I did. Signed, Richard Corey in all his blood, sweat and tears
Just think, you former employees could have benn 'working' all this lost year. Too bad you gave away all your power to your union bosses and they wouldn't let you accept the terms back then. They're still 'using' you to make their case to lots of other business's. But they couldn't 'save' you could them.
At what point do they give up? Move on people and accept that it's over....they don't work there and haven't for a year. They obviously have proceeded as a business without them just fine. Time to find another job and learn that union strong arm tactics don't always work.
Someday soon, the Club will finally realize that it is costing them more (in money and reputation) to keep locking out their employees.
When will Castlewood management come to terms with the fact that locking out their employees not only hurts the employees' families, but actually also hurts the Club, its members, and its own public image?
"Norr also pointed to $300,000 spent on legal fees by the country club and the loss of at least 10 golf tournaments along with "any number of parties" as reasons the lockout is costing Castlewood Country Club more than a contract with workers would."
Does that mean the union will work hard to destroy what they can't have?
But isn't that what a lock-out is?
We lock out workers, then claim the locked-out workers and their unions are out to destroy us.
Since I know Measure E is going to fail, I'm going to send my 98 dollars to Castlewood Country Club in order to help them pay their legal fees. It's time to stand up to the uppity bartenders and waitresses of the world.
SHAME on the Pleasanton Weekly and Shame on the Mayor /city counsel for their decision to side against a private business entity and tax paying residents of the city of Pleasanton.
Thanks for the reminder to tell everyone we know to go give Castlewood Country club business in 2011! It's time the city counsel and the Pleasanton Weekly start standing up for the communities and private businesses that made this the great city what it is today. This is not your Berkeley campus where there are plenty of free market, capitalist haters. Had it not been for old school communities like Castlewood you would not have the readership nor the cush jobs and fat paychecks you currently enjoy.
Castlewood homeowners pay enormous taxes to the city of Pleasanton! Start treating them with the same dignity and respect and tolerance that you do your groups with Socialist and Marxist tendencies.
Pleasanton residents want tolerance for ALL from the Weekly and City Counsel. All people regardless of their race, regardless of their income and regardless of thier voter registration, regardless of whether they are union or non union! Show respect. Be fair.
Until the tolerance goes both ways, SHAME ON YOU!
The management and members of Castlewood should be especially proud of locking out an 82 year old female employee that has worked their for 25 years. Now that's showing some real class. If they can hold out for a long as the Claremont hotel (6 years before they settled) she'll be almost 90!
I find it hard to believe that if cooler heads prevailed that this dispute couldn't be settled in a day or two. In reading the letters posted here, there doesn't seem to be a lot of empathy towards the 61 families that have been locked out for more than a year. The union is an easy target to attack, but the people hurting and are being punished are the families.
Where is the compassion?
To doc...the 61 families are being USED by the union.
The "empathy" that is lacking and the "compassion" that is missing can best be explained by asking the unions why they choose to USE such easy "targets" as these families to "attack" private business.
See, this is how it is. The workers and their families are the union's targets. Like dart boards. And then the unions toss the dart boards as an attack upon private business. And private business defends against the dart boards by locking everyone out. More private businesses should defend themselves by locking out the dart boards.
I'm still apalled that there was or is an union involved with CCC in the first place. I don't even see the club as a business. I see it as a group of individuals who have pooled their dollars for a common interest...owning a piece of land that is their's for playing golf, and having a drink after the game if they want. The club belongs to those individuals....only. How can any outside group, including a totally union owned, bought off judge. The group that calls itself a club,periodically chooses a few among themselves to oversee daily activities. Which decade or century along the way lose our personal, private rights. Oh yea...in the last 100 years. Everything is being whittled away. The assult and insult is that outsiders are trampling the rights of the first and primary group to assemble, play golf , and eat. That is nobody's elses business !
I remember the article that was written about the former Castlewood employees. I think 50% are collecting unemployment and the other 50% have taking lower paying jobs without healthcare benefits. The former employees have been used by the unions as pawns, and now they either aren't working or are mostly working non-union jobs.
So, just what has the union accomplished? They might be demonstrating some misguided union machismo, but they certainly aren't doing anything for their own members. Maybe if the union leadership were able to clue into the concept of budget constraints, especially during difficult economic times, these former employees would be happily and gainfully employed.
I'm not a member of the CCC, but I certainly support the efforts they made to reach a workable agreement. And I also agree that the city needs to stay out of the business of interfering with a private entities labor negotiations.
Absolutely agree with idle and Arnold. What right does govt have sticking its nose into the private club's affairs. If it doesn't want to accept or hire minorities it shouldn't have to; if it doesn't want to accept or hire women it shouldn't have to; if it doesn't want unionized workers it shouldn't have to accept it, even if the workers voted to have the union. Of course all this ignores over a half century of law. But it feels good stating that private clubs should be able to restrict people at its lunch counter and drinking fountains if it wants to. This is called liberty, Ayn Rand style. Welcome to Tea Party Thinking 101. See, preventing unwanteds from drinking at one's private drinking fountains is a matter of personal liberty. How our thinking has evolved over the past 50-60 years, yes?
Judging by some of these posts, it's pretty clear that there now exists strong evidence of the missing link between man and monkies.
Yep, just a bunch of golfers. That reminds me of O.J. Simpson's remark after him and a bunch of goons got nabbed for strongarming their victim. "Hey, my friends aren't gangsters, they're just golfers."
So, this post is dedicated to all the golfers in the world who want to form a club and restrict entry to only rich old white guys like themselves. They're just patriots and freedom seekers.
Congratulations, woody and darwin. With your ignorant leftist posts, you've now diverted the conversation from labor negotiations to your favorite topics of race baiting and class envy. You guys should open up your own club and invite whomever or whatever to join, instead of trying to tear down CCC, which is all the union is interested in at this point.
Open a bleeding hearts club and hire those union workers who think menial labor is worthy of pay and benefits for skilled, educuated workers. That's Socialist Utopia Thinking 101.
Steve is sooooo right. Labor negotiations have nothing to do with class, or race. Anyone who thinks labor is related to class must be changing the topic to class envy. Anyone who thinks owners should be able to restrict membership and hires any way they like is related to race is just living in 1910. It's soooo great to be living in a class-free, racialist-free society. Support the golfers against uppity bartenders and waitresses. If you don't then you must be a liberal utopian nutcake. Let's repeal women's right to vote, roll back civil rights legislation, and really sock it to organized labor. We need to return to the good old days.
"Anyone who thinks owners should be able to restrict membership and hires any way they like is related to race is just living in 1910."
Actually, the Boy Scouts do it all the time and the Supreme Court has upheld their position. Maybe there's your window of opportunity.
Stacy, I assume that 'Steve is right' is posting another example of why you posted the topic about "An ongoing, concerted effort to shutdown all reasoned and civil discourse on important issues facing our community"
Sounds like the result of an inability to focus on the subject and provide an intelligent contribution to the discussion. Or, ignorance on display. Hopefully, he'll be finding a clue soon.
The censors are coming! The censors are coming! Follow Stacey and Steve's lead. Let us censor the conspirators who would disagree with us.
Rich white guys? Restricted membership at Castelwood? If anyone would bother to review the club's membership you would be hard pressed to define it as restrictive. If your check clears you can be a member.
In addition, every member I know either works hard or is retired from a lifetime of working hard. Just because people like to play golf does not mean they don't work, have their own bills to pay, children to educate, medical bills etc.
The membership made a business decision on the costs associated with the locked out workers. The union thinks they can make it more expensive to maintain the lockout than to capitulate. That may be, but the fact is that these employees threw their hat in with the union and these desisions have consequences. These employeess have been replaced. At last count 95% of the membership supported management's position.
Meanwhile the members continue to play golf, the union continues to hire protesters, beat the drums, play the sympathy card and rub elbows with Scott Haggerty.
The only people losing here are the workers who put their fate in the hands of the union.
You're not being censored. You're just being asked to participate in a civil debate. Those with untenable arguments usually feel the need to resort to name-calling and other forms of ridicule.
Yep, curley is really believable, based upon the two members he knows. 'If your check clears you can be a member.' Nothing restrictive about that. Just a bunch of clean cut white guys, most of whom inherited theirs. Everybody feels soooooo badly about the workers. Especially the 82 year-old woman. Oh what a sucker she is to allow the union to toss her like a dart board.
I think everyone is missing a key point here. We now employ a new staff of workers who needed jobs. These new employees are happy to be there and doing a much better job than the union rabble. I make sure I tip them well. I never want to see any of union employees at my club. These union people are not only terrible employees, they are what is wrong with our country. Across the US we are seeing the effects of unions, bankrupting businesses, cities and states. And when they don't get their way, the resort to tactics to try and destroy the very businesses they want to work at? Lets see.... They want their agenda forced upon businesses, or they will destroy them..... Sound like terrorists to me. All the protesting and megaphones and sirens have galvanized my position on this matter, these are terrible people doing terrible things in the effort to get compensated at an unreasonable level. I applaud the board for standing their ground, and in retrospect, the problem with the country is not so much unions and their terrorist tactics, the problem is too few stand up against them.
How could I not be convinced by your incisive and analytically sound argument? So, YOU'RE the guy who left me that 5% tip? Thanks for treating us so well.
I especially like the part about the union terrorists. Spot on, Dude. Most people haven't grown the balls to state such obvious truths. But you have. It must require having six balls in order to make such claims about the terrible union terrorists. I haven't heard such claims since Jim made them, I mean streve, I mean start afresh, I mean center right, I mean Reader, I mean, well somebody probably from Ball State (which is in Indiana, not India). You see, once the 'logic' starts to unfold there can be no mistaking you for who you are.
Dang, if I weren't voting for Palin, I'd vote for you. Keep on giving yourself on these posts, please don't stop. Just keep giving. Your logic will prove to be infectious.
So larry and mo, you really are that clueless. You are a phony. The silly 5 % crack means you are a paid union activist, not CCC worker. Full tips are automatically added to all bills. Some or most members leave a bit additional....making it better than on the outside. You were probably talking, instead of listening when that part was skimmed over.
"You see, once the 'logic' starts to unfold there can be no mistaking you for who you are."
I couldn't have said it better.
let me ask you this, how has the union benefited their members? Did the union pressure these employees to strike? Are the unions members better off working for lower wages without any medical benifits? Are the union members even union members anymore?
member is right,
all union workers are terrible people. i had to disown my son and daughter because they became union workers.
arnold is right, too
unions are bad things. unlike private businesses, their strategies always fail. that's why they don't have unions in china. it's better just to take what the owners are willing to give you. see, you have free will and if you don't like the pay you can take you and your family's needs elsewhere.
a good example is nelson mandela. he was imprisoned most of his life because of his support for an organization that claimed to want to advance the life opportunities of its members. what good was that? sacrifice like that? i mean, c'mon. he should have just accepted aparthied. and martin luther king was assassinated for his political efforts. what a failure he was.
so, unions are a bad thing. sometimes they have setbacks, sometimes they get busted. all the more reason to keep unions out of pleasanton.
it gets worse when govt intervenes and shoves their big noses into matters. forcing us to recognize civil rights is a case in point. what about free will? I've felt so personally oppressed since civil rights legislation passed. not that i'm prejudiced. really. i just think good people should be able to hire and fire whomever they want. that's freedom. like the founding fathers envisioned it,
pinkerton, what's next, a reference to Gandhi and the unions. Get a grip. Your crusade is a futile attempt to prop up an impotent union. It makes you look like a pawn for organized labor, at the expense of the so-called downtrodden workers, having dues sucked out of their paychecks.
If the union was genuinely concerned for the workers, they'd refund their dues and admit they've been using these people.
Ghandi was a communist, just like all the unions and their terrible members. He led the people of Indiana in an uprising against Hoosier republicans.
I would like to mention that anyone who continues to patronize CCC with their business or membership really needs to think about what this nation has sought to be. The people gloating about the lock-out, and then blaming the workers who they locked out, are the same people who would have resisted Martin Luther King's efforts to help sanitation workers form a union. Yeah, sure, union members are 'terrible people' and 'bad workers', and 'we treated our help with such generosity'. Believable? Of course not. Search your own hearts. Take your business elsewhere. Your conscience will clear up after you do so.
Hey Jesus, if Castlewood treated you so badly while you worked there, why did you stay and take their money and FREE healthcare?? Most people wouldn't work at a place where they were treated badly. Funny how Castlewood was a great place to work until they wanted the workers to start paying for some of their own benefits. Ask the replacement workers how bad Castlewood treats them.
Also, if your Union is such a great organization, why haven't they gotten you another Union job in the area. Answer is: because they don't care about YOU, they only care about the Union. You are just a pawn in the big game for them but you can't see that.
Larry and Mo - I am a Castlewood member, so my knowledge of the membership roster and member qualifications is pretty extensive. I will ask it again, why is it that those of us who are members are not considered "working people" when, in fact, the vast majority of us have jobs and spend more than 50 - 60 hours a week working? I will not apologize for working hard and having enough success to be able to join Castlewood. Someone once said country clubs are for people who need to play golf on the weekends because they are busy during the week.
Jesus - I have not heard anyone call the locked out workers terrible people. All of the workers I have dealt with over the years were quite nice. However, just because a person is nice does not mean they do a great job or make good decsions. I think you have made a terrible decision, and there are consequences to these decisions. Your union would not even let you vote on the original proposal that was on the table. You let yourselves be guided by the wrong people. Your decision, your consequences.
The members made the decision to support the lockout and the consequences are increased costs for some period of time. But these costs are far less than those that would be incurred if we continued to fund the health care costs of the locked out workers.
Its not personal.
Now I don't know who to believe. Curly says the union workers are 'quite nice'. But 'member' above (Mar 7, 6:28) claims all the union workers are 'terrible people'. 'Proud member' calls them 'pawns', 'member' calls them terrorists.
Now, I'm certain your assertion about the hard-working golfers who work 50-60 hour weeks at CCC is objective and true. Why would I doubt you? Nevertheless, when they enter the club in order to release all their pent-up steam, they are supporting scab labor. They are aiding and abetting scab labor, which makes them scabs themselves. As Jesus stated, supporting the scabs is an unconscionable act.
You say 'nothing personal', but maybe that's your problem. Instead of reducing humans to beans and coordinates on a flow chart, maybe you should think in terms of humanity.
As for you blaspheming Jesus and calling him a 'pawn', I'm certain he forgives you and still loves you along with all the other scabs.
I am not a member of Castlewood however I wish I were so that I could
go there and support them with my business.
Scabs need to work, too, of course. And so their resort to scabbing is somewhat understandable. But golfers can take their business elsewhere. I'm a golfer. I won't become a member of this club, I can assure you.
See, there goes larry and mo screaming that anyone who does not support their union/socialist views are just "scabs". That is pretty typical of union members/supporters, they scream at the top of their lungs how bad people are that won't give them what they want. If you give the union folks what they want they are your pals and you can live in peace, but try to make a good business decision and all of a sudden you become a bad person and a scab. I'd rather be a scab than to capitulate to their childish behavior.
Stay the course Castlewood
I've been a member of CCC for several years. There is nothing restrictive about its policies at all. The $630 per month dues is well within the reach of any working-class family. Not considering an inconsequential initiation fee, that works out to just slightly above $7500.00 per year. We pride ourselves in being open to all working-class peoples of Pleasanton and beyond. That we hire so-called scab labor should have no bearing on whether you join or not.
"These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland ... They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." --Ronald Reagan, Labor Day Address at Liberty State Park, 1980
Compared to Hoover, I'd rate Reagan way down.
Curly - you are wrong on the costs. This lockout is costing us more than settling with the Union. Last year we spent much more fighting than settling at the Union proposal and this year is the same. Look up my email in the member roster, send me an email, and I will send you the data. The analysis uses the Club's numbers and clearly shows that we lost big money fighting this.
Larry has passed his analysis to several members at the club and it is flawed big time. He fails to take into account several factors, including long term costs.
'member' has proud aspirations to become a scab or a scab supporter. he apparently is also comfortable calling Ronald Reagan a socialist because Reagan supported unions as a foundation of freedom for working-class people. trust 'member'. he really knows what he's talking about.
I am also a member and I was forwarded Larry's data. He seems to have put together the CCC management's numbers with those supplied by the union to give an accurate picture. I was on the fence when this started, but it's becoming clear that the members are going to pay for a few on the board to further their ideology.
We've lost 11 tournaments, several banquets and weddings, memberships that cost $50k+ are now worthless. Where does it end?
This goes beyond members paying for a few on the board to further their ideology.
This is a moral issue. At a certain point, morality trumps financial concerns. Unless they have a vested interest in supporting union busting and scab labor, members should quit because it is the morally right thing to do. Vendors should suspend business until CCC does the morally right thing.
Pleasanton voters have shown at the polls that they are a liberal community that values personal freedom balanced with matters of social justice. It is time for members of this good community to vote on this matter with their feet.
"Posted by Jesus, This goes beyond members paying for a few on the board to further their ideology."
What does that means? You say, "This is a moral issue. At a certain point, morality trumps financial concerns." What you are really saying is that you don't care if the CCC goes bankrupt as long as they are moral - pay up, in your opinion. If they do go bankrupt I'm sure you'll blame it on bad management. Sounds like the same logic that is driving cities into the fiscal sink-hole.
Do you have a strategy other than trying to destroy a long time pleasanton asset? Whatever your goal maybe I think it is miguided.
Oh, my son, if only you could hear yourself as I do. I heard the same kind of arguments by southern plantation owners who bemoaned the loss of slavery as an institution; I heard the same kind of arguments from those who enforced aparthied in south africa; and too from restaurant and hotel owners across the united states who took the name of God in vain while frantically claiming that racially integrated restrooms would ruin their businesses.
Truth be told, my son, America's greatness is founded upon union labor. Even the angelic Ronald Reagan recognized this. Perhaps in the face of legitimate union claims for fairness, management at CCC should have reviewed their own profit margins and distributions. But no, instead they chose the immoral path of lock-outs and scab labor. That was their choice. And they chose profit margins over justice. Now members and vendors have a choice to make. Profits? Or justice? I'm confident they will make the right choice.
Hey Jesus and Larry-
Michael Moore called and he wonders why you haven't joined him in Wisconsin yet. He's got another losing battle for you to fight out there.
If you look up on the Unite Here local 2850 Facebook page you will see they are begging their membership to support their cause by writing into this comment section. So i doubt many of the "pro" union comments are from concern citizens.
The reality is that only 6.7% of non goverment workers are members of unions. This represents the smallist percentage in our country's history. Workers are finally getting it.
Of the total number of protesters(reported to be 200)that came for the one year anniversary only 15 were Castlewood workers. So the union proved they can bus in protesters from Oakland. Big deal
Oh, Tom, Tom,
Why has reason forsaken you? You have been abandoned, and only hatred and greed is left to consume your soul. Note the distinction you draw: "So I doubt many of the 'pro' union comments are from concern [sic] citizens." This betrays the hatred that festers within you. Are not union members and all of God's children who support unions concern [sic] citizens? In your 'mind', must one be nonunion and be consumed with hatred and self-loathing as you are in order to be a concern [sic] citizen?
I beseech you to continue to engage in this dialogue. We all implore you: Bare your scabby soul to us. I can help you. Fear not, you are not abandoned.
You know Jesus - you may think that your "tear down the messenger" approach is working, but it is not for the vast majority of people out there.
And this is coming from someone who rose from working the the fields as a kid picking fruits/vegetables to attending an ivy league university ...
I've found that rather than trying to take from others, I've focused on bettering myself, adding value to society, and enjoying the fruits of that effort.
I or you are not entitled to anything other than an equal opportunity to improve oneself. This is the difference between entitled people like you and successful people like me even though we may have come from very similar backgrounds.
Dear Not Entitleed,
I'm crushed by your message. I need your help. Can you tell me which Ivy League School you attended that enabled you to go from "the the fields" to constructing sentences like "I or you are not entitled..."?
Then maybe you can tell me what union busting and scabbing have to do with entitlements? And, while you are at it, please tell me the source of your Not Entitleed wisdom. Which great mothers or fathers of thought were you exposed to when you attended that Ivy League School? I need to read them in order to acquire your great wisdom.
Unsuccessfully yours, I remain with you in spirit
"Not entitleed" is ignorant. He does not know the difference between entitlements and rights. Unions, by law, have the RIGHT to enter into collective bargaining. Brothers and sisters shed their blood on the streets in order to win that right. Support the locked out workers. Do the right thing. Withdraw your membership and discontinue all business with Castlewood Country Club until management returns to the bargaining table.
I bet that Jesus, Charles and the rest of the union shills on this blog don't even know where Pleasanton is much less where Castlewood is located.
Just remember, that without a business there are no employees! Power to the business owners!
As a former private sector union member, I actually support private sector unions. I don't, however, support your tactics. You talk about rights but you aren't the only group that has rights. The CCC, a private organization, also has rights. Show some respect.
Charles, is it possible that this attitude has something to do with the demise of private sector unions? Just asking?
"Show some respect."
I assume Arnold isn't asking the locked out workers to show respect. That would be like asking Libyan freedom fighters to show respect for Gadhafi.
As far as "this attitude" goes, I'm not sure how to explain the ignorance and lies that pervade the CCC apologists on this thread.
What I do know is this. As a former member of CCC I call on members of CCC to show some respect for the locked out workers by cancelling their membership. Vendors who do business with CCC can show some respect for the locked out workers by cancelling their business doings with CCC. It is the right thing to do.
mmm ... drive an organization out of business so you can get what you are entitled to? I think they tried that with GM and Chrysler. Maybe taxpayers can bailout CCC when it goes under due to union demands.
You folks are a good reminder for why I despise unions so much.
There is too much despising in your life my child. It comes from a deeply seated loathing of self. It obscures your judgment which, combined with your ignorance, renders you unable to clearly see any issue that passes before you. In case the conversation has passed you by with too many changing subjects, the entitlements you rant about are not in any way the same as the right to elect a union in order to engage in collective bargaining practices.
I remain sincerely yours, and still awaiting breathlessly for "not entitleed" to inform us which Ivy League university we need to attend to get the education he claims to have gotten.
Harvard. Their was a business convnetion that I attended in 1959. Before relativism and unions. I, nor any others, left the center uneducated about the entitleements of collective bargaining.
It may be instructive to bring this fact to the debate: unlike privately owned companies unions are democratic organizations whose actions are determined by the members. Despite all the claims of UNITEHERE 2850 members beings "pawns" and "dupes" they knowingly voted to fight CCC's demand for concessions. When they refused to concede CCC locked them out. They were locked out, they didn't strike, the club unilaterally decided to keep them off work. A short time after the lockout began the club promoted a decertification election hoping the members would dump their union. No dice, they're in it until they win.
I work for a union and am familiar with Pleasanton's current dispute with its own city workers. I represented members at many locations in the tri-valley area in the nineties and remember the folks in the community as thoughtful, friendly people. Hopefully, the myopic tea bag types are just the ones hanging out on this blog.
Thanks for the update and clarification, Mike.
The employees have NEVER voted on an offer that has been presented, their president refused to let them vote even when they presented her a signed petition saying they wanted a chance to vote on an offer that was on the table over a year ago.
Castlewood DID NOT promote a decertification vote of the Union, that was done by the employees themselves. If you truly work for the unions then you know that the employees are the only ones that can request a decertification vote to the NLRB. You are correct that it is a lockout by the employer. It is a lockout because the union refused to negoiate in good faith knowing the as long as they could string out the talks the Club would have to keep paying all of the expensive benefits.
Newspapers report that a vote was taken by union employees after they were locked out on whether to stay solidary with their union or bail out. By a margin of 41-17, workers elected to stay the course and remain solidary with their union leadership.
It is worthwhile to read about the unreasonable demands CCC placed on its full-time and part-time workers. I encourage all interested readers here to do so. Once you become familiar with the facts, you'll not want to remain a member of the club, nor will you want to do business with them in the future.
Please tell me Charles, what are all of the "unreasonable demands CCC placed on its full-time and part-time workers"? You seem very well versed on this so I assume that you are a union plant on this thread.
Well, there 'all in', you might try reading a newspaper once in a while. It has been widely reported that CCC has demanded that its low-income workers use approx 40% of their wage for health care. That's over 3X the national average for similar kinds of employees. Also, CCC insisted that it have the right to fire anyone arbitrarily, including those workers who management felt were advocating for workers' rights. No doubt these are reasonable demands in your view. In my view, they are unreasonable demands, and hideously so.
As a former member of CCC, I appeal to all reasonable members of CCC to leave the club. It is the moral thing to do. I appeal to all companies that do business with CCC to cease business affairs until CCC goes back to the bargaining table and shows a good faith effort to reach an agreement with the union.
Hey Charles, I agree with you. But part of me thinks you're barking up the wrong tree. CCC is a club that caters to elites who have amassed their wealth at the expense of us working stiffs. We work our limbs to the bone during the week, while they idly shell out 630 bucks a month for the privilege of cruising around the golf course in their high-class buggies. On the week-ends, we're working a second job just to make ends meet, and they're out on the links basking in self satisfaction at the way they've exploited those below them. They aren't likely to leave the club. It's their fortress where they can hang with each other and pat each other on the back. It makes them feel good that CCC workers cater to their needs while earning low wages and being forced to pay $700+ out of their wages for health care. Get it? The members spend their 600+ on golfing privileges. The workers spend their 700+ on health coverage. That's why CCC has managed to lock-out their workers with so little fanfare. The members who patronize the club are elites who enjoy the wide disparity of wealth between themselves and their servants. Were CCC a southern plantation in the 1850's, CCC members would feel comfortably right at home being served by their darkies. It stinks. Sometimes I think the more things have changed the more they have stayed the same.
Thanks for your comments, "working class proud." And I agree with most of what you say. But there are some among the wealthy who have a conscience, and it was to them I was appealing. CCC membership and all those who do business with CCC should put pressure on management to do the right thing. Withdraw your dues; withhold your business. Let's get CCC back to the bargaining table.
The fact is the CCC membership, no matter how characterized by anyone, is an entity that employs workers. Were they offering a competitive package vs other similar establishments?-- do the comparisons Ms Huber. No one should blame them for attempting to bring their expenses in line and protect their financial stability over the long-term. Just because they may have over-paid in previous contracts, DOESN'T mean that has to continue perpetually. This employer, like any other, has to take steps to be financially sound -which is good for labor. This dispute should not have been about "haves vs have nots", union vs non-union, employer vs employee. The only focus of this dispute should have been whether or not the contract offered was competitive vs other private country clubs or similar establishments based upon employee qualifications-- fair and just. How many people chiming in against CCC even know what these employees were going to be paid in total comp? Union's should be about equal pay for equal work; not we get what we want or you get "no peace" because you can generate a "nuisance". If these union employees (after over a year) have determined that they can not find another similar job that pays (wages, tips, and benefits)equal or better to what was on the table, that they left behind, their Union leadership let them down....period!!--and that is who needs to replaced. The fact is the past contract is expired, Castlewood should be able to make it's own decisions for future contracts based upon their needs and their sitution. Time to revisit and see what's "right", not we got you last time so now your perpetually stuck with a bad deal no matter what economic circumstances dictate. My fear is this union has gone too far, and cost their members a very good opportunity. You can't blame the member/owners for not wanting these union employees back to serve them food......Furthermore it IS SHAMEFUL that any recognized politicians blindly advocate for a Union just because it's a Union, without weighing in all factors to the dispute including the financial responsibility of the employing entity, and outside opportunities of the union employees. Mind boggling!!
I have only one word for the scab JP's rehash of company's pathetic rationale: paragraphing.
Jeremy, you've obviously have succumbed to drinking the Union "cool-aid" and can no longer think for yourself-- that's why you only have one word. The Blind leading the Blind. Entertain me, what's your rationale?? what makes mine "pathetic"
Not worth it, JP. I don't engage scabs or those who employ them.
Well Jeremy,then be careful who you follow... and have a nice day.
JP - you make a good point about seeking contracts that are competitive with the local private country club market. Both the Club's and the Union's proposal meet that criteria - the Club's is in the middle of the market and the Union's is at about the 75th percentile. The cost of this fight has and continues to greatly exceed the difference between the two proposals. Both sides are paying dearly for continuing this fight. As to you point about the members not wanting these workers back serving at the Club, that is true for some members and not for others - but it is a moot point since the workers, not the Club members, get to chose whether or not to have a union under our laws.
Thanks for the input Larry, when you refer to middle vs 75th percentile are you referring to health care coverage or total compensation? from what I understand in total comp CCC was offering a total package better than any country clubs or restuarants. Hence the union members that were displaced that have even been able to find work, have mostly taken part time jobs-- they just can't find the compensation that was on the table for them....??? it would be nice to see the total comp package....I think if the club or the union would post it, it would help many who have been taking sides without knowing all the facts.
Marth do you care to share what you know?....tell me what Castlewood's total comp is vs other country clubs in the area.....cmon?? if you don't be inquistitive, don't be a blind follower. Ms Norr and Ms Huber know how difficult it's been for them to find comparable work for the displaced workers at their hands.
Oh, the former employees KNOW what is NOT out there for them ! Times are tough. Few in any of the unions are bright enough to be objective or fair enough to be objective about the reality of any enterprise, public or PRIVATE, staying solvent, much less being forced to make self-destrictive financial decisions.
Union members like Jeremy, working class, Marty, et al belive all of nothing is better than part of NOTHING ! ! Ask the 12.1% of CA who found their employer's doors shuttered ! Most of them would work for less than before, just to find a job. Of course you all KNOW that, or you would have taken better offers, but you're crawling back, since there isn't anything else as good for you.
Just hang in there with your greed philsophy.
Friday's US job report showed net ZERO jobs gained....the first that has happened since 1945 ! ! Just chew on that you fools who sold your souls to union bosses, who happily USE you for their campaigns...tragic.
Marty, Castlewood's proposal is the highest total comp of any country club in the area...btw. Does that change your thinking? just ask and you will know.
@Marty et al.--
"Further, any jobs they have been able to pick up would also be deducted. Typically these are part-time jobs, because the Castlewood workers are new on the job market, and usually can find only part-time work, said Norr."
In case you don't know, Ms Norr is a unite2850 union leader, quoted in independent news this week speaking on the NRLB complaint. "new on the job market? it's been 16 months!!!....Don't buy into this unions propaganda, they misled their members and should be replaced. Don't follow blind, hold Ms Huber and Ms Norr accountable.
JP - your wrong on the total comp, at least based upon what the Club has told its members - wages and benefits are at about the mean for local private clubs. If you are a member go look at the April 2011 Status report.
Don't miss out on the discussion!
Sign up to be notified of new comments on this topic.
Post a comment
Posting an item on Town Square is simple and requires no registration. Just complete this form and hit "submit" and your topic will appear online.
Please be respectful and truthful in your postings so Town Square will continue to be a thoughtful gathering place for sharing community information
We prefer that you use your real name, but you may use any "member" name you wish.
Select your neighborhood or school community: *
- Amador Estates
- Amberwood/Wood Meadows
- Another Pleasanton neighborhood
- Apperson Ridge
- Beratlis Place
- Bonde Ranch
- Bordeaux Estates
- Bridle Creek
- California Reflections
- California Somerset
- Canyon Creek
- Canyon Meadows
- Canyon Oaks
- Carlton Oaks
- Carriage Gardens
- Castlewood Heights
- Charter Oaks
- Civic Square
- Country Fair
- Danbury Park
- Deer Oaks/Twelve Oaks
- Del Prado
- Foothill Farms
- Foothill Knolls
- Foothill Place
- Foxborough Estates
- Golden Eagle
- Grey Eagle Estates
- Hacienda Gardens
- Happy Valley
- Heritage Oaks
- Heritage Valley
- Highland Oaks
- Jensen Tract
- Kolb Ranch Estates
- Kottinger Ranch
- Laguna Oaks
- Laguna Vista
- Las Positas
- Las Positas Garden Homes
- Lemoine Ranch
- Lund Ranch II
- Mariposa Ranch
- Mission Park
- Mohr Park
- Nolan Farms
- Oak Hill
- Oak Tree Acres
- Old Towne
- Pheasant Ridge
- Pleasanton Heights
- Pleasanton Meadows
- Pleasanton Valley
- Pleasanton Village
- Remen Tract
- Ridgeview Commons
- Ruby Hill
- Southeast Pleasanton
- Spotorno Ranch
- Stoneridge Orchards
- Stoneridge Park
- Sycamore Heights
- Sycamore Place
- The Knolls
- Val Vista
- Valley Trails
- Vineyard Avenue
- Vineyard Hills
- Vintage Hills Elementary School
- Walnut Hills
- West of Foothill
- Willow West
- Alisal Elementary School
- Amador Valley High School
- Donlon Elementary School
- Fairlands Elementary School
- Foothill High School
- Hart Middle School
- Harvest Park Middle School
- Horizon High School
- Lydiksen Elementary School
- Mohr Elementary School
- Pleasanton Middle School
- Valley View Elementary School
- Village High School
- Vintage Hills Elementary School
- Walnut Grove Elementary School
- another community
- San Ramon
Verification code: *
Enter the verification code exactly as shown, using capital and lowercase letters, in the multi-colored box.
Another bad idea from the air board
By Tim Hunt | 20 comments | 3,255 views
Good-Guys were here without me
By Roz Rogoff | 0 comments | 879 views
Home & Real Estate
Send News Tips
Circulation & Delivery
San Ramon Express
© 2015 Pleasanton Weekly
All rights reserved.