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About this blog: The Raucous Caucus shares the southpaw perspectives of this Boomer on the state of the nation, the world, and, sometimes, other stuff. I enjoy crafting it to keep current, and occasionally to rant on some issue I care about deeply...  (More)

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A Continuing Conversation?

Uploaded: Mar 10, 2017

Blogger’s note: I’d like to encourage a continuing conversation, from time-to-time, to follow-on from comments made in earlier blog posts. Here’s one: you can see Hotslide’s two comments in the ‘Governing from Behind’ blog.

Hallelujah, Hotslide – I wasn’t sure you had it in you, but you do! That’s good news. I hope you get the contrast between your first and second comments: none of the bully-boy crap about body parts and closets; a lot less ‘othering’ and labeling (but still with the ‘you libs’), and a tone more rational than invective. A little snark I can live-with (and may return).

So let’s talk.

The “no GOP votes in ACA” thing is true, but there’s more than one interpretation. Either the Dems didn’t try/steamrolled it through (which seems to be your point), or the GOP heeded their marching orders to never (ever) agree to anything associated with Obama. Or both.

The fact that the ACA’s very origins were in the far-right Heritage Foundation think-tank as an alternative to single-payor is significant for two reasons: 1 – there were already GOP ideas in the ACA approach, and 2 – despite that, no Republicans voted for it.
That’s what leads me to believe more in the latter interpretation, as clearly the Dems didn’t need other-aisle votes (as the GOP doesn’t now), and just as clearly those marching orders were issued earlier -- on the eve of the 2009 inauguration. Obviously, your mileage may vary.

I am not sure where that would fit in a blog about the Dems repeating the GOP’s ‘Party of No’ mistake, but there you have it.

Now, about the outrage! over Obama’s misstatement regarding ‘keeping your doc’: first off, I just have to suggest that to hear that scorn out of one-side of anyone’s mouth, coupled with “oh, that’s just the way Trump is” in defense of the incumbent’s serial pattern of untruths, is hilarious. But let’s talk about it, anyway.

Obama said it and it was factually wrong. The predominant reason it was wrong is that some folks had been duped into buying so-called ‘insurance’ that was so defective that it would almost never actually cover anything. Hence, those policies did not meet minimum decency standards set by the ACA, and they were canceled. Some fraction of those folks bought better policies that did meet the standards, but their prior docs weren’t in-network, so they had to change.

But I ask you – were they better, or worse-off under the ACA?

Pure free marketeers might argue that people should be free to be defrauded if they choose, but that’s not really the point of a law designed to provide actual coverage to more Americans. So the statement was incorrect – calling it a ‘lie’ assumes an intent to deceive, which I reject, but I’m guessing you don’t. Okay.

Now, the more interesting current question is whether the GOP will have the votes to pass its own shameful/shameless bill. The strategy seems to be to rush it through the House (before its coverage and budget implications are even known? What does that fervid pace suggest about a bill that won’t be effective for several years?), and then try to pick-off the Senate Republicans who have doubts on the left (e.g., Collins, Portman I think) or on the right (Rand Paul and any Kochafiles) – or who maybe even listen to the building chorus of reasoned opposition, from the likes of docs (AMA) and penalized oldsters (AARP).

There’s good reason to suspect that the GOP bill disproportionately hurts Trump voters (older, less wealthy, rural Americans) and helps the Masters of the Universe (significant tax cuts for the rich, who will no longer have to sleep under those bridges). Unless Lincoln was wrong about not fooling all the people, all the time, that’s going to cost them backlash votes (oh yeah, and lives too). So maybe the best thing for the GOP ’18 and ’20 would be for this travesty to fail.

Either way, I really think the Dems ought to have their alternative up there, front-and-center. What do you-all think?

Comments

 +   1 person likes this
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore,
on Mar 10, 2017 at 3:53 pm

Fortunately, I have adequate health care and I'm deeply grateful.

I appreciate the plight of folks in the US "illegally" who do not have access to medical care. To those individuals/familiies, I always suggest that they present for services at a county medical clinic. Walk in and wait for on-duty staff to examine you and provide emergency medical care.

It's an option that people in need of emergency assistance cannot ignore.


 +   7 people like this
Posted by SHale, a resident of San Ramon,
on Mar 11, 2017 at 8:29 am

SHale is a registered user.

I wonder who should pay for illegals are who told to 'show' up at the 'county medical center'?


 +   3 people like this
Posted by Sam, a resident of Oak Hill,
on Mar 11, 2017 at 9:02 am

SHale:"I wonder who should pay for illegals are who told to 'show' up at the 'county medical center'?

All those "illegals" wouldn't even be here if not for the fact that so many Americans - including hypocritical conservatives - are paying for their cheap labor as farm hands, contractors, housekeepers, nannies, etc.. Or do you think that they're all those "illegals" are simply getting by on food stamps, welfare, stealing, and trips to the 'county medical center'?


 +   1 person likes this
Posted by Tom Cushing, a resident of Alamo,
on Mar 11, 2017 at 9:09 am

Anybody have any actual data on any of these presumptions?


 +   2 people like this
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore,
on Mar 11, 2017 at 9:18 am

Tom...this article may be of interest: Web Link

It's not necessarily related to your post, but it's informative.



 +   1 person likes this
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore,
on Mar 11, 2017 at 9:24 am

plus i forgot to say that i think that Miss Lucy, in the middle of the photo with her cool apron is a CUTE AS A PEACH! VIVA!

Web Link


 +   5 people like this
Posted by Po dunk, a resident of Avila,
on Mar 11, 2017 at 10:01 am

PewResearchCenter: Web Link


 +  Like this comment
Posted by SHale, a resident of San Ramon,
on Mar 12, 2017 at 8:41 am

SHale is a registered user.

the complete picture is certainly complicated. Illegals due show up at emergency rooms and a certain percent have no insurance, no money, so the American tax payers foot their bill (unwilling I might add).
the other side of the ledger if all illegals went 'back' home our economy would take a rather huge hit.
What to do? Path to being legal, slap their hands, pay a fine, put them at the end of the line etc etc.
and lose the silly, ineffective 'wall'.


 +   1 person likes this
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore,
on Mar 12, 2017 at 9:52 am

I have no objection to paying taxes, especially when children in need of medical care utilize emergency services. Millions of "illegals" already pay taxes so I don't agree that paying a "fine"is fair or reasonable.

I'm OK with anybody who doesn't appreciate living in the USA going back home...Europeans included. GO...don't look back...

Slap their hands...is that paddy cakes?


 +   3 people like this
Posted by Michael Austin, a resident of Pleasanton Meadows,
on Mar 12, 2017 at 10:25 am

Michael Austin is a registered user.

Illegal immigrants generate Two Trillion Dollars in underground economy.

Illegal immigrants send over 25% of that underground money (500 Billion cash) back home, while they show up at Americas emergency rooms for free medical care.

That two trillion cash is not taxed.


 +   2 people like this
Posted by Cholo, a resident of Livermore,
on Mar 12, 2017 at 10:49 am

Immigrants pay BILLIONS in TAXES: Web Link

What's el problemo with working humans paying taxes and enjoying the benefits of their labors? PRIMARY MEDICAL CARE IS BASIC FOR THE HUMAN RACE TO SURVIVE.

Illegals have also served in the US Military with dignity. Many have died protecting your rights.

What I appreciate is that so many major American universities are dedicated to protecting undocumented students! VIVA AMERICA! VIVA! GORA!


 +   2 people like this
Posted by Polo-Mlo, a resident of Carriage Gardens,
on Mar 12, 2017 at 10:55 am

People of color not wanted: Web Link


 +   3 people like this
Posted by Michael Austin, a resident of Pleasanton Meadows,
on Mar 12, 2017 at 12:26 pm

Michael Austin is a registered user.

Tax earnings are not factored into the two Trillion underground economy.
The two Trillion underground economy is not taxed.


 +   2 people like this
Posted by Jake Waters, a resident of Birdland,
on Mar 12, 2017 at 8:26 pm

First of all, let's be honest about many of the 'so-called' facts about illegals, taxes, and public services used by illegals at tax payer expenses. Try this link: Web Link

Secondly, they use the Welfare Services very effectively, that is why California has a big budget for Welfare. And the statement that gets thrown around quite frequently is, 'they put into the system more than they take out.' Nice try, isn't so. I do agree with the comment regarding the use of illegal's labor in this country, but don't buy the suggestion that if all that went away we would suffer as a nation. Too many people want to romanticize the plight of the illegal, but let's get honest, open borders doesn't work. There was a time when immigrants came to this country and there were no social services, except the Catholic Church. As a tax payer, I would like our representatives in this state to represent us, instead of looking at us as an ATM machine to pay for all their social projects.


 +  Like this comment
Posted by Michael Austin, a resident of Pleasanton Meadows,
on Mar 13, 2017 at 7:34 pm

Michael Austin is a registered user.

Jake,

American Indians met the Mayflower passengers and were the social service for them, that help settle the passengers, feed them etc. The Catholics came later. Also, Columbus did not discover America. It was here all along, inhabited by the Indians.


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